intra-family transfer of handguns

[garuda7]

I had read on Calguns that I, a 18 year old, can legally own and possess a handgun if it is gifted to me through intra-family transfer and a transaction report was filed. As a graduation gift, my dad and I went to go look at a beretta 92fs. We both have hsc's and we were talking to a salesperson at a particular gun shop, and when I explained what I intended to do he insisted that I was mistaken and that 21 was the legal age of possession. He claimed that he was in the gun business for 20 years and studied CA gun laws to the letter and that had never heard of such a thing. He berated me for about half an hour about how this would be a straw purchase, told me I would go to jail if a police officer ever caught me with one, and then asked us to leave. Needless to say, my dad went and bought a 92fs elsewhere. So long story short, is it really a straw purchase if he were to then, after the waiting period, file the proper paperwork and give it to me? Am I allowed to transport it and take it to the range by myself? Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[tuna quesadilla]

Which gun shop was it? The clerk you spoke with is a moron.

[Rukus]

Perhaps your father never intended to buy the gun FOR you, but rather purchased it and now finds that it does not particularly suit him, therefore he is giving it to you. I do not know the P.C. but I believe that you can legally possess a handgun at 18....

[Quiet]

I had read on Calguns that I, a 18 year old, can legally own and possess a handgun if it is gifted to me through intra-family transfer and a transaction report was filed. As a graduation gift, my dad and I went to go look at a beretta 92fs. We both have hsc's and we were talking to a salesperson at a particular gun shop, and when I explained what I intended to do he insisted that I was mistaken and that 21 was the legal age of possession. He claimed that he was in the gun business for 20 years and studied CA gun laws to the letter and that had never heard of such a thing. He berated me for about half an hour about how this would be a straw purchase, told me I would go to jail if a police officer ever caught me with one, and then asked us to leave. Needless to say, my dad went and bought a 92fs elsewhere. So long story short, is it really a straw purchase if he were to then, after the waiting period, file the proper paperwork and give it to me? Am I allowed to transport it and take it to the range by myself? Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

It is not a straw purchase.
Next time a FFL says so, show them Section A question 11.a. on page 4 of the ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Part 1 Revised August 2008 and ask them to explain what's written there.

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer:
For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g.. redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party.
ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES:
Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer to Mr. Jones.
However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 USC 922(g), (n), or (x).
Please note: EXCEPTION:
If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

Legal age to possess a handgun is 18 years of age or older.
Show them CA Penal Code 12078(c)(2)(C).

Penal Code 12078
(c)(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

[Quiet]

Needless to say, my dad went and bought a 92fs elsewhere. So long story short, is it really a straw purchase if he were to then, after the waiting period, file the proper paperwork and give it to me? Am I allowed to transport it and take it to the range by myself? Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

No, it will not be a straw purchase (see above post).

He does not file the proper paperwork, you file it.

After he gifts you the handgun, send in a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-familial Handgun Transaction along with $19 to CA DOJ BOF.

Once it's yours you can transport it (unloaded in a locked container) to the range by yourself.

However, you can not legally purchase handgun ammunition until you are 21.

[tuna quesadilla]

Quiet brought up a good point about ammo. You can't buy ammo for your Beretta until you are 21. However, I am 99% sure that it IS legal for an 18 year old to buy handgun calibers like 9mm, .45, etc, if it's for a rifle chambered in that caliber. Someone please chime and and confirm/deny this. If you should happen to have a rifle such as a Ruger PC9 or a Marlin Camp 9, then you could buy 9mm ammunition because it is for your rifle...

[Futurecollector]

Uh Oh your going to jail..... for a long long time... horrible...








what they all said above me essentially

[patsline74]

Quiet brought up a good point about ammo. You can't buy ammo for your Beretta until you are 21. However, I am 99% sure that it IS legal for an 18 year old to buy handgun calibers like 9mm, .45, etc, if it's for a rifle chambered in that caliber. Someone please chime and and confirm/deny this. If you should happen to have a rifle such as a Ruger PC9 or a Marlin Camp 9, then you could buy 9mm ammunition because it is for your rifle...

This is true and this is how I get .45 ACP at 19 yo. It is a very helpful loop hole. In fact, the gun store I go to doesn't even ID or ask.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

California law allows people to sell handgun ammo to an 18 year old if the seller "reasonably believes" that the ammo is for use in a rifle. Keep in mind that it is a Federal crime for an 18 year old to lie to an FFL about the intended use of ammo that can be used in a handgun. So if an 18 year old goes into an FFL and tells the FFL he wants to buy a box of .22LR ammo for his .22 rifle, but he doesn't really own a .22 rifle and he is really buying the ammo for his .22 handgun, then the 18 year old has committed a Federal crime.

This only applies to purchases from FFL's. If an 18 year old goes into a sporting goods store that sells ammo but does not have an FFL then he can lie about the intended use of the .22LR ammo without breaking the law.

Also, when you go into a gunshop and tell the FFL that you want to buy a handgun to give to your 18 year old child, of course they are going to freak out. Even though it is legal for a parent to gift a handgun to their 18 year old child in California, and even though the Feds allow you to buy a gun for somebody else if it is a bona fide gift, you are still telling the FFL that you are buying a gun for somebody that can not legally buy a gun from the FFL. This is exactly the kind of scenario that FFL's are taught to run away from. BATFE and the National Shooting Sports Foundation keep drilling this into FFL's. When you go into an FFL and tell them right up front that you want to buy a handgun for somebody who can't legally buy a handgun, most FFL's are going to think you are trying to set them up.

Just buy the handgun for yourself and then give it to your 18 year old child as a gift. There is no reason to tell the FFL what you are doing. No laws will be broken and the FFL won't need to throw you out of his shop.

[garuda7]

thanks alot for the quick feedback guys. really appreciate it. put my mind at ease

[garuda7]

thanks for the info, quiet. Very thorough, your citations were helpful

[Fjold]

I'd love to know who the first FFL is.

[garuda7]

this was at Ade's Gun Store in Orange

[safewaysecurity]

I know this thread is very old but I was researching the issue as the same thing happened to me and this thread popped up on google. I went to Bullseye Range in San Rafael and was talking to my sister who is sixteen about handgun ownership because she wanted one after trying a few out and I told her she has to be 21 to purchase and 18 for an intra-family transfer as soon as the guy behind the counter heard this he felt like he needed to correct me and he said no it's 21 even for the transfer which at that point I pointed out that it was FUD and I explained that 21 is for purchases from the dealer and ppt but not transfers from parents or grandparents. I wanted to PROVE him wrong right on the spot but it was closing time and I didn't want to deal with it.