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[kmullins]

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[Mssr. Eleganté]

He can sell any of them to an out of state resident by shipping them to an FFL in the buyer's State. He can sell any of them to a California resident if he meets face to face with the buyer at a California FFL to complete a "private party transfer". Some of those handguns listed might be exempt from the roster under the single action exemption, depending on their configuations. If so, then those ones can also be sold to a Californian by shipping to a California FFL local to the buyer.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Only the ones that are exempt from the Roster can be shipped to a California FFL. Certain single action revolvers are exempt if they meet the minimum size requirements. Curio & Relic handguns (including any handguns over 50 years old) are also exempt from the Roster. I'm not familiar enough with all of the models you listed to know if they meet any of the exemptions to the Roster.

And you don't need to ship it from an FFL. You only need an FFL on the receiving end. That goes for both out of state and California shipments. However, some FFL's have a policy of only receiving shipments that come from another FFL. Ask the receiving FFL first if he will accept a shipment directly from the unlicensed seller.

[kmullins]

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[Mssr. Eleganté]

Ok. So the ones that are not exempt from the roster have to be sold out of state.

No. The ones that are not exempt from the Roster either have to be sold within California via a PPT, face to face with the buyer at a California FFL or sold out of state.

Handguns don't have to go through an FFL?

Legally, they only have to go through an FFL on the buyer's end. Some FFL's have a policy of requiring an FFL on the shipping end too.

You can't ship them UPS Ground though can you? Doesn't it have to go overnight? Thanks.

Yes. Both UPS and FedEx have company policies of requiring handgun shipments to go via one of their overnight services. FedEx Ground has a company policy of not allowing handgun shipments at all. The USPS only allows handgun shipments between Licensed Dealers and/or Licensed Manufacturers. There is word coming out that UPS is starting to allow handguns to be shipped via their two day air service if the shipment is between FFL's, but there is nothing in their tariff or shipping guide about this. It might only be available to big contract shippers.

Oh, and here are the requirements from CPC 12133 for the "single action" exemption...

- single action revolver

- at least a 5-cartridge capacity

- a barrel length of not less than three inches

- Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

[Librarian]

Ok. I am starting to understand but I just don't get it quite yet. If it isn't exempt, meaning it isn't on the list and isn't a single-action or other exempt type, it's fine to sell in California or out-of-state. What does the exempt status accomplish then?

This list really seems to only apply when buying handguns and bringing them into California, at least that's what it seems to me.

Actually, it applies to buying FROM an FFL in CA.

Since interstate handgun transfers MUST usually go through an FFL in the state of residence of the buyer, a handgun from outside CA coming here must either be on the Roster, or sold to an exempt person (primarily LEO).

You can move to CA with handguns not on the Roster.

Once the off-Roster gun is legally in CA, it can be sold to anyone eligible to buy a firearm, but through the CA Private Party Transfer unless, again, it is sold to a Roster-exempt buyer.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

What does the exempt status accomplish then?

The exempt status means it can be shipped to a California FFL for transfer. If it is not exempt then you have to transfer it via PPT if you want to sell it in California. PPT's require that both parties show up at the FFL together for the transfer.

[cousinkix1953]

The definition of a safe handgun is based upon whether the manufacturer wants to pay annual bribes to the Kommiefornia DoJ mafia.

Most of those off-roster models are not the cheap Jennings, Bryco and Lorcin pistols, which sell for $100 maximum and are commonly called Saturday night specials. You can't even buy some products made by Colt, Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Browning! Since when do military contractors and law enforcement suppliers sell unsafe handguns?

I ran into a dealer on line, who can't even ship one of Dirty Harry's early S&W model 29 handcannons to residents of this police state. ROFLMAO...

We don't have a roster for potentially dangerous power tools and none of those manufacturers pay annual bribes, to stay on a government approved list. They won't burden the auto industry either despite all of the people who die in freak accidents caused by manufacturing defects! Why haven't these liberal mush heads applied the same logic to childrens toys and the companies which make them too?

[BillCA]

Ok, so there are no laws prohibiting him from selling any of those handguns to an out-of-state resident or to a CA resident, as long as it goes FFL to FFL for out-of-state or goes FFL to FFL/FTF at FFL for "private party transfer" for inside California state.

on consignment thru a local FFL's store.

Again, he could ship the gun to an out of state FFL for completion of the transaction with an out of state buyer. Some FFLs will only receive shipments from another FFL.

Selling on consignment means he enters into an agreement with a local FFL. The FFL/shop will display his gun for sale like other guns. If sold, the FFL will perform the paperwork, collect the money, sales tax, DROS fee, etc. In return, he gets some percentage of the final sale price (varies widely between 12% to 25%).

The advantage of consignment sales is exposing the gun to a lot of potential buyers, not having to be present at time of sale, someone else does the legal paperwork and fee collection and handles the money. The downside is that it can take a while to sell the gun, you may not get as much money as a FTF sale, you have to carefully read any agreement with the FFL and understand all fees you'll be charged.


Three letter acronym keyFFL - Federal Firearms LicenseePPT - Private Party TransferFTF - Face to Face

[Librarian]

The definition of a safe handgun is based upon whether the manufacturer wants to pay annual bribes to the Kommiefornia DoJ mafia.

Most of those off-roster models are not the cheap Jennings, Bryco and Lorcin pistols, which sell for $100 maximum and are commonly called Saturday night specials. You can't even buy some products made by Colt, Smith & Wesson, Ruger or Browning! Since when do military contractors and law enforcement suppliers sell unsafe handguns?

I ran into a dealer on line, who can't even ship one of Dirty Harry's early S&W model 29 handcannons to residents of this police state. ROFLMAO...

We don't have a roster for potentially dangerous power tools and none of those manufacturers pay annual bribes, to stay on a government approved list. They won't burden the auto industry either despite all of the people who die in freak accidents! Why haven't these liberal mush heads applied the same logic to childrens toys and the companies which make them too?

Strictly speaking, guns on the Roster are "not un-safe".

As to the rest, surely you never had any other illusions about the Roster...

As I wrote long ago,

Is the Roster even about safety?

No. The original intent was to put ‘Ring of Fire’ gun manufacturers out of business. Unfortunately for that intent, the guns – Davis, Lorcin, Bryco etc. – passed the tests.

It is also intended to establish the legislature’s ability to classify some guns as ‘bad’, and others as ‘less bad’. In this they have succeeded.

[cousinkix1953]

Strictly speaking, guns on the Roster are "not un-safe".

As to the rest, surely you never had any other illusions about the Roster...

As I wrote long ago,

Hell no.

I'm only demonstrating just what a fraud this roster scam is for a newbie. It can't make sense to anyone with a brain. The SCOTUS has already decided that a Washington DC resident has the right to own an off-roster handgun whether that corrupt regeime likes it or not. And the DC silly council just adopted the Kommiefornia roster right off the DoJ's website.

Maryland started this handgun roster crap in the 90s; so why didn't they adopt that one instead? Something tells me that it's not as draconian...