Kimber vs Wilson Combat

[ocxpirate13]

What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...tom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

[wildhawker]

Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer

[ocxpirate13]

Handle and shoot them both. Then, buy a Baer

Currently I am not looking to buy, I just want to gather information because I cannot fathom why Wilson Combat and Les Baer price their guns so high. I think the Kimber I chose is reasonably priced, but does it's lower price compared to the $2800+ Wilson Combat also mean it has lower quality? Or does Wilson Combat and Les Baer simply mark up the price of their handguns because it has their logo on it? Please, enlighten me.

[wildhawker]

I think the Kimber I chose is reasonably priced, but does it's lower price compared to the $2800+ Wilson Combat also mean it has lower quality? Or does Wilson Combat and Les Baer simply mark up the price of their handguns because it has their logo on it? Please, enlighten me.

Yes, to some degree, but beauty and function are in the eyes and hands of the beholder. And yes, LB and Wilson do mark up their pricing reflective of the product, demand and their reputation, as does Kimber.

You may never desire for the function and details a LB, Wilson or full custom will give you; to those that do, the value of the higher-cost pieces make their price tag baerable.

[The SoCal Gunner]

There is a big difference in build quality, parts, fit and finish between the guns Kimber builds and the guns WC or Les Baer builds.

[erskatedoc]

Get a Wilson

I have three 1911's (Colt, S&W, Wilson) and the Wilson is hands down the best HG I have ever owned. Plus, they stand behind their products.

[J-cat]

What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...tom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

Cosmetics and reliability. WC cosmetics are much better and require alot more man hours to accomplish. Also, WC pistols are tested for reliability using fully loaded, and partially loaded magazines.

Kimber are production guns. If you compare checkering or beavertail grip safety fit, you'll see.

ETA: Wilson also uses higher quality small parts.

[Sheepdog1968]

I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

[APNF128]

Comparing Kimber from WC is like apple and oranges.Kimber is mostly production guns while Wilson is Custom crafted.The long hours of fitting polishing and finish is what makes a big in price difference. You also never loose much of what you payed for unlike in mass production pistol.

[J-cat]

I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

They are not much more prone to jamming issues. I have two Springfield Armory Custom Shop Professionals (much tighter than a WC CQB) and they have not jammed once. I have shot factory and handloaded ammo, jacketer and lead, RN and SWC. Not one malfunction ever.

When you pay that kind of money, the machining, fit, and finish are usually perfect. The geometry between moving parts is IDEAL, not just within tolerance. The guns feed reliably and shoot accurately.

[Juicymeat]

I've asked some friends about this. My understanding is that Wilson and Les Baer involve much move individual hand work than a Kimber. They are all fine guns. My guess is that you would be more than happy with any of them.

The one thing I should point out is that these higher end 1911s (I'm lumping all three together) are much more prone to jamming issues than the older more rattling 1911s. Tighter tollerances give better accuracy but are more easily jammed up.

That first part is pretty dead on...the second part not so much.

[sholling]

Tight tolerances can make a pistol less reliable. In the case of the old rattle trap GI 1911s that difference had more to do with running dirty than anything else. They didn't feed hollow points reliably because they weren't intended to.

Modern 1911s are built much tighter. Partly because almost no one will buy a rattle trap, and partly because they want to be able to claim that they have match barrels and match accuracy. A Kimber with a "match barrel" will naturally have a tight "match" chamber. A match chamber is by it's nature finicky because it's tighter and if everything isn't perfect there can be feeding issues. That "match" barrel is part of a huge batch with mass production tolerances and one of every so many dozen or hundred are checked by quality control. Then those barrels go off to a mass production assembly area, get assembled, test fired, and shipped. The consequence is that a certain percentage of these mass produced "match grade" pistols won't feed.

That's a big difference between a Wilson (or any genuine custom shop pistol) and a Kimber. The whole process is more time consuming and far more attention is paid to detail. Wilsons are not mass produced and are not just slapped together. Tolerances can be tighter because everything is individually checked and hand fitted and stacked tolerances aren't allowed to cause issues.

My bottom line is that I don't want match anything on a self defense pistol. A failure at the range won't get you killed but a failure in a fight just might. What I want in a fight is dead reliable with decent accuracy. I really like Springfield Armory's "loaded" and S&W's SW1911 for a production line self defense 1911. On the other hand for a pure range toy "match" gewgaws have a place. But if I were competing then I'd rather the manufacturer put more time and money into function than fancy pimped out finishes.

I own one true factory custom - a S&W performance Center PC1911. The S&W equivalent to a Wilson or Baer. If I could afford it I'd buy an alloy framed Wilson Combat Compact CQB in a heartbeat as my primary self defense pistol. My life is worth it to me. Plus pistols at that level are a work of art.

[m1match]

I've got a bunch of 1911s from full custom builds to stock Colts. My opinion is I will not own a current production Kimber. I've seen too many problems with reliability, durability, and problems with the Kimber series II firing pin safeties. The 1911 was designed to be built with a fair amount of skilled labor to fit parts. With a high end production gun from Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk, etc. you are paying for higher quality parts and the skilled labor to build them right.

Sheepdog1968s assertion that higher end guns will jam more is absolutely not true in my own experience. A 1911 that is built right will run well. Les Baer's are built tighter than Wilson's or any other 1911 that I've seen, but those who own them generally say they're very reliable. In my experience, my one Wilson CQB, Nighthawks, and my full custom builds are reliable enough to run in multiday classes shooting hundreds of rounds a day without any jams.

[BlackDrop50]

Of course a Wilson Combat is going to be better. It's going to have all forged CNC parts and will probably be more hand fitted than a Kimber unless you get a higher end Kimber. Wilson also test fires and usually makes sure they are good before sending out.


That being said, people bad mouth Kimbers way too much. They have MIM parts and are really more of a production gun. They will still more accurate than most shooters.

4000 rounds and counting in my Kimber Raptor II. Still shoots a mag through a quarter within 15 yards(Best I can do). No failures of any kind since break in - first 400-600 rounds.


If you have money to spend and want the absolute best, I would recommend a Wilson over a Kimber, however, the Kimber will be just as good for most uses for much cheaper.


As with almost all companies, some guns will have problems. If you hang around on the 1911 forums you will see people with WC guns have problems as well.

[B Strong]

What is the difference between the two companies' 1911s? I've looked at the specifications, and I see some differences, but are the differences really worth the price? For example, the Kimber 1911 that caught my eye was the Custom Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...tom_covert_II/), and the Wilson Combat 1911 was the CQB (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_cqb.asp). Now, looking at the pricing, what makes the Wilson Combat 1911 so much better that it costs almost double, or more than double the Kimber 1911's price?

If you need a 100% reliable 1911 type pistol for social purposes or competition, the Wilson is absolutely worth the increase in price over a Kimber.

I own an older (10+ yo) Wilson Combat Protector Pistol, and a Les Baer TRS.

I also own 3 Kimbers.

There is simply no comparison between say My Kimber TLE RLII and the Wilson or Baer, even though the TLE has been 100% reliable. The fit, finish and functionality of the Baer and Wilson are so far ahead of factory offerings that one range session will convince you.

There is a different question, and that is do you (or anyone) need the level of perfection of the custom house pistols? a tier 1 go-fast military unit operator or SWAT officer does, but do the rest of us? It's a question of priorities really.

You could purchase a Kimber, a case of ball ammo, and a training course at a reputable facility for the price of a new Wilson pistol. I would suggest that the Kimber + would be a better investment for most people than the Wilson.