how to break a bull barrel python (UPDATE: FIXED!)

[D.R.E.]

I have a bull barrel python that has a big aristocrat rib on it, seemingly setup for PPC.

I thought that this meant it was fine for near max 357 mag loads. Unfortunately I was informed that PPC ribs were in fact designed to keep the front sight on the X ring when doing powder puff 38spl loads and using them for 357 was going to cause problems.

This is unfortunate since I only learned this useful fact after the rib flew off my gun tonight and whacked me on the head when shooting 357. The empirical record suggests that the rib is fairly heavy, in case you were wondering.

Here's how things should look:



And like magic, reality shows how they actually look:



The bolts sheared right off:





And it looks like they are locktite'd which will perhaps make removal more annoying.




The only good thing is that since I spend a lot more time working on colts than shooting, I have a backlog of guns I need to check out that can take it's place. Otherwise I'd be pretty pissed. As it stands it should be an interesting repair project.

[hybridatsun350]

Well... that sure presents an interesting problem! That is definitely an interesting Python though.

[battleship]

That would of been a sight to see, i presume this happened at Jackson Arms, what grain bullet were you using. Hope your ok.

[D.R.E.]

That would of been a sight to see, i presume this happened at Jackson Arms, what grain bullet were you using. Hope your ok.

158gr penn bullet, and a near max accurate arms load. We have reloading supplies, but perhaps not the IQ to use them wisely.

It was a sight to see, I'll bet, though my eyes were closed during most of it. I didn't even know what happened til I looked down and saw part of the python there. That little scene should probably be filed under "WTF" in the OED

Lucky I was shooting hot enough loads or it could have flew a couple of inches lower and that would have been pretty ugly. I already have a souvenir from a beginner handgun scope mistake...

[BigRich]

Will it still accept a Python barrel?

[ivanimal]

My buddy showed me a Bill Davis stainless bull barreled Smith that had shot a plus P round. That gun will never be fired again. It was such a shame, the action was still like butter. Those guns were made for 38 special and they mean it! I have a Davis bull barrel as well. I am glad he showed me his before I did something dumb to mine. Knowing me I would have.

Notice the same rail added to the top. My Bob Chow has a similar Bowmar sight.

[D.R.E.]

Will it still accept a Python barrel?

Yeah, the gun itself --- frame, barrel, etc --- is fine. Just the bolts on the rib got jacked.

I'm planning on fixing the bull barrel. I just need to talk to some of the machinists I know as to the right way to remove such broken screws.

I got advice already that sounds reasonable --- use ez tap (not sure of the spelling) after heating the barrel w/ a propane torch (not acetylene!) and a substance from brownells as a way to nuke the locktite.

[D.R.E.]

Nice S&W!

Do you know who makes the bull barrels?

Props on avoiding certain gun death

My buddy showed me a Bill Davis stainless bull barreled Smith that had shot a plus P round. That gun will never be fired again. It was such a shame, the action was still like butter. Those guns were made for 38 special and they mean it! I have a Davis bull barrel as well. I am glad he showed me his before I did something dumb to mine. Knowing me I would have.

[tzahoy]

Ouch! One thing worth noting, in one of Patrick Sweeney's books he's got photos of a 357 mag Model 27 he built for pin shooting. It's got a bull barrel and Aristocrat rib on it and is made specifically for shooting heavy bullets probably above most reloading manuals max loads.

I would be more inclined to believe someone overtightened the screws causing their failure. They're probably 6-48 or thereabouts which is a pretty small screw and easy to yield if you overtighten. With that extra fine thread you get a lot of clamping force which will stretch the screw and cause it to fail if i's over tightened. Still I'd be inclined to machine the rib for two more screws, replace them all with new, tighten them properly, and locktite them before having at it with the 357 loads. Oh, and make sure they are not bottoming in the hole before the rib is tight.

The bull barrel I recently bought for my model 14 was made by Clark. There used to be more people making them though, i think Wilson and Davis all made their own from blanks like Clark does.

[kurac]

The device is called an EZ out, you drill a smaller pilot hole and then you tap in the EZ out while turning it counter clockwise, after you heat up the screws to loosen the locktite. Its going to be a pain on small screws like that. If the studs break, you may have to re-drill and tap to a larger screw size.

They sell the EZ out at Orchard. It looks like a funky tappered spiral drill that will never be able to drill a hole, you should probably ask them unless you want to spend all day looking for it.

[madmike]

I would use a soldering iron to heat just the screws, after drilling a pilot hole with a left hand drill bit(if you have one). Then use the Easy Out as suggested above. Loctite thread lockers liquify at 450deg, there shouldn't be any need to heat anything else.
If the screws are just stuck, and not held with a thread locker, you could try Freeze and Release made by Loctite, it uses cold to contract and crack corrosion in the threads and then allow lube oil to seep in. It works really well when you don't want to use heat.

-madmike.

[gadjeep]

I second the left-hand drill bit idea. Often times, just the bit will back out the screw. If you need a set most of the online machine houses have them (enco, wholesale tool, etc) or harbor freight always has them in stock. Good luck!

[D.R.E.]

Ouch! One thing worth noting, in one of Patrick Sweeney's books he's got photos of a 357 mag Model 27 he built for pin shooting. It's got a bull barrel and Aristocrat rib on it and is made specifically for shooting heavy bullets probably above most reloading manuals max loads.

I would be more inclined to believe someone overtightened the screws causing their failure. They're probably 6-48 or thereabouts which is a pretty small screw and easy to yield if you overtighten. With that extra fine thread you get a lot of clamping force which will stretch the screw and cause it to fail if i's over tightened. Still I'd be inclined to machine the rib for two more screws, replace them all with new, tighten them properly, and locktite them before having at it with the 357 loads. Oh, and make sure they are not bottoming in the hole before the rib is tight.

Nice. Thanks for the run down. Bumping up to thicker screws and one or two more makes sense. I would like to push hot loads through it, otherwise there's not much point to having all that weight

I'll see about pulling out the ones from the rib at least tonight to see what they are.

I was hoping to just machine them off with the barrel on. It's probably a good idea to take it off first, though?

The bull barrel I recently bought for my model 14 was made by Clark. There used to be more people making them though, i think Wilson and Davis all made their own from blanks like Clark does.

Cool. I was thinking of taking barrel blanks and making bull barrels for some beat up m357s and troopers I have, but perhaps that's an easier way. They don't have underlugs and it doesn't really look right

[D.R.E.]

The device is called an EZ out, you drill a smaller pilot hole and then you tap in the EZ out while turning it counter clockwise, after you heat up the screws to loosen the locktite. Its going to be a pain on small screws like that. If the studs break, you may have to re-drill and tap to a larger screw size.

They sell the EZ out at Orchard. It looks like a funky tappered spiral drill that will never be able to drill a hole, you should probably ask them unless you want to spend all day looking for it.

Good deal. Thanks for the directions. I can easily see wasting a lot of time wandering around.

There's a good chance I'll wind up drilling the holes bigger just so there is no sequel. "Let's do a low rent labotomy w/ a bull barrel, II" doesn't have the same ring as "Debby does Dallas, XI: the suburbs". Or something like that

[D.R.E.]

I second the left-hand drill bit idea. Often times, just the bit will back out the screw. If you need a set most of the online machine houses have them (enco, wholesale tool, etc) or harbor freight always has them in stock. Good luck!

Will check on that. I suppose this won't be the last time such an event happens so having both methods around might be useful.

Is the advantage over EZ out that a left hand is cheaper?