California Pistol Builder

[wdoyle1980]

Anyone have any information re: home-built pistols and California? I am interested in making a few small single-shot (or even a semi-auto) pistols. I know I can federally build these, and it should be fine to make them in CA - but do I need to fill out and submit the paperwork to 'register' the handguns, or is that for any purchased/migrated pistols ?

It's only $19 @ to register, so it's not a HUGE deal, but i'm concerned about MODEL: HOMEMADE :::heavy sigh::

[TitanCi]

this may help (Although it's for AR/AK pistols, but I don't see how it can't help):

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115364&highlight=ar+15+pistol

he talks about registering it and stuff like that.

[wdoyle1980]

Cool - Thank you. The link provided talks about 'wanting' to register. I was more questioning the 'have to' part ;-) Is it CA law to HAVE to register a self-built pistol?

I will bookmark the thread and print out the CA registration form for when I get-around to it. Making a >6" barrel single shot seems to be the simplest way. His article implies that registration is voluntary. I agree that it's easier to talk to LEO when you can show that it's been registered, but doesn't make me feel nice to know that it's one more thing they'll look for when it's knock-knock-here-for-your-guns time.

[ke6guj]

No, you don't HAVE to register a self-built pistol. There are Pros and Cons if you were to register which that thread goes into.

Be aware of CA's zip gun laws

12020(c)(10) As used in this section, a "zip gun" means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:
(A) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(D) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion

In an attempt to say on the safe side of the zip gun prohibitions, most people are making copies of already commercially designed firearms. Original design fireams may run afoul of (B). One exemption to the zip gun law is to apply for a AOW Form 1 with the intent to configure that original design firearm in an AOW configuration, BEFORE your physically make the firearm.

[gunn]

Here's a thread where I asked similar questions to yours and the responses I received:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=148639

I'm mostly OK with all the reasoning for all points made here except for one: is it OK to build an AK pistol with 16-inch or greater barrel?


12001. (a) (1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol,"
"revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"
shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a
weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less
than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that
has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be
interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

As you can see, a pistol can have a >=16 barrel if it was designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

Since I was looking at making an AK out of a Romanian G kit (16" barrel), I wasn't sold that the barrel could be "designed to be interchanged".

1) Yes, they make <16" barrels but I didn't own one.
2) It takes quite a bit of work to "swap out barrels" on an AK
3) As the homebuilder, am I neccessarily the "designer" of my pistol? Would a Jury believe that? How could I claim that I was the designer of my particular firearm AND simultaneously claim that the pistol is NOT a zip-gun because i am making a "copy of a commercially designed firearm."

Now, I guess there are commercially available AK pistols with 16" barrels, but this was skating a little too close for my comfort. Finally, I believe some post says that there is a holdup at CalDOJ and only 2 home-built AKs had their paperwork go through (everyone else was in limbo). After that comment, I decided to hold off for now.

[wdoyle1980]

I really don't like that zip-gun wording. I know they're looking to stop the 'bic pen 22 conversion' but i don't think making a very 'distinctly-gun-looking' bolt-action or break-open pistol, with a RIFLED barrel of 6", shouldn't make it too vague that I am INTENDING for it to be, and look like, a pistol. Couldn't I say that I 'intended' to model it off of the M6 survival rifle? I know that CA just doesn't want people to make firearms. i get that. i also don't want to have to pay $200 for an alright/alright homebuilt rifle/pistol to get an AOW stamp for it.

[ke6guj]

All I can say about that is that there is currently a case with a CG'er getting popped for having home made firearms being called zip guns. A 1919a4 and 2 M2 or M3 .50BMGs (that were registered as .50BMG rifles during the registration period).

[wdoyle1980]

""All I can say about that is that there is currently a case with a CG'er getting popped for having home made firearms being called zip guns. A 1919a4 and 2 M2 or M3 .50BMGs (that were registered as .50BMG rifles during the registration period). "


I don't understand how a 1919a4 and an m2/m3 could be considered a zip-gun? Aren't these semi-auto conversions being made 'as intended' or is that in dispute b/c of the conversion to S/A?

[ke6guj]

I don't understand how a 1919a4 and an m2/m3 could be considered a zip-gun? Aren't these semi-auto conversions being made 'as intended' or is that in dispute b/c of the conversion to S/A?

Apparantly LA is saying that any homebuilt gun is considered a zip gun.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=136596

Regarding the five felonies that Don faces. Two or three of them relate to the registered M2 and M3, and the 1919A4 semi-auto rifles. These guns were all "home built" by Don as semi-autos in strict compliance with state and federal law. The M2 and M3 were registered with DOJ as I previously stated. They were legally built and possessed by Don, but in all their wisdom the case detective and DA are charging the guns as, get this, "ZIP GUNS" under the Californa penal code.