Technique question - shots landing left

[kpw001]

I'll preface this post by stating that I am novice (and that's being nice) shooter by all means. That being said during last night's trip to the range I brought out my SA 1911 mil-spec for the first time. I also brought my S&W Sigma 9 which I've had for almost 2 years now. Some other bits of useful info is that I am right handed, left eye dominant so I tilt my head to line up my eye with the sight. After reading up on stances I have tried both Weaver and isosceles and prefer the isosceles. I worked on my grip following the techniques that Todd Jerrett discusses in this video and can apply the grip naturally to either of my guns now.

The photo below is after 50 rounds from each guns aimed to the right of center, the .45 on the left 9mm on the right. Both targets were on the same hanger at 20 feet and I alternated 5 shots from each gun. As you can see it seems like I lost all control of the 9 between shooting the .45. Normally I would be able to put at least 75-80% of shots inside of the shoot-n-c target. I though the extra weight/recoil of the 1911 would help me control the longer/heavier trigger of the Sigma but I guess not. Also the last 10 shots I had flipped the targets upside down so most if not all of the shots to the right of center are the result of still landing left, just that the target was upside down.

So is there anything I should be doing to keep from drifting left? Any tips and pointers would be greatly appreciated!

[ojisan]

If you get to the point in your skills where your shots land consistently in one area, but not the center of the target you are trying to hit, it is then time to adjust the sights so they look where you shoot.
Everyone shoots a handgun different...different hand shapes, hand strength, grip pressure, finger length and more all affect the direction the gun moves when firing.
You will find that often when you shoot someone else's handgun that is "sighted-in" exactly for them that it will have a different point of impact for you.
Handguns are the most personal of all firearms.

[emilio]

If you get to the point in your skills where your shots land consistently in one area, but not the center of the target you are trying to hit, it is then time to adjust the sights so they look where you shoot.

+1. if it groups consistently, every time, then you can trust adjusting the sights. if the bullets are flying willy-nilly with little grouping then work on shooting technique and ask someone else to try the gun to make sure it's not a mechanical issue.

i can creep left, even after years of handgun shooting. in my case, it's a lot of grip and trigger discipline. your firing grip should be solid throughout the entire shot: sometimes i find myself gripping the gun harder as i pull the trigger, and that's a no-no. when shooting for maximum accuracy, the only things that should be moving are the trigger, your heart, and the burrito you had for lunch. (yes, no lungs: exhale, hold, squeeze, inhale.) get in to the shooting position and sight alignment, the forget everything but the trigger and sight picture. make sure to have the first pad of your trigger finger squarely on the face of the trigger and pull straight back. sometimes i find my trigger finger is placed more towards the joint and i'm not pulling straight, nudging the gun slightly to the left.

also: use a rest! ask if the range has sandbags or a rest, bring a tightly-rolled jacket, or just rest your wrists on the lane bench.
- emilio

[Greg-Dawg]

I'll preface this post by stating that I am novice (and that's being nice) shooter by all means....Both targets were on the same hanger at 20 feet...

Novices don't start at 20 feet. Take a basic handgun class and all your bad habits/problems will be over.

[Unit74]

Is your target blurry? Focus on the front sight.

Hard to make a call with so many rounds on the left target but the right target looks like you may be staring at the orange dot. You may be anticipating the shot as well.

[Beelzy]

Try a more consistent hold on the gun. After that many rounds, it is common
to start "limp wristing", especially when just starting out with handguns.

Nice grouping nonetheless.

[JTROKS]

First, have you shot your handgun and ammo combo over sandbags or rest to see what kind of accuracy they are capable of? If you do that and you consistently get a 1 - 2" group at 20 ft right on the center POA then you can start analyzing your shooting technique. That said, confirm your accuracy and zero, then make necessary adjustments. After you accomplish that go ahead and start shooting off hand and see where you're at. Shooting with a rest can teach you several things in shooting accurately.

[kpw001]

Thanks for the tips. Anyone have any recommendations for a sight pusher for my 1911? I'll be sure to take some shots off a rest next time out as well as working on refining my overall technique.

[Beelzy]

Thanks for the tips. Anyone have any recommendations for a sight pusher for my 1911? I'll be sure to take some shots off a rest next time out as well as working on refining my overall technique.

For a sight pusher, I use a brass punch.

[Buddhabelly]

Novices don't start at 20 feet.

How far do novices start then, according to you?

[Stockton]

How far do novices start then, according to you?

I dont know about him....but...... when I take a new shooter or someone wanting advise on their handgun skills I set them at 5-10ft away depending on how new they are to pistols. A lot of habits can be fixed with very clear immediate results in such a short range as well as I've found that this builds confidence during, after, and for future practice. Lastly I tell them when they can point,aim,and shoot groups at 10ft repeatedly then its time to grow some distance 5ft at a time. Just my 02.

[Buddhabelly]

I dont know about him....but...... when I take a new shooter or someone wanting advise on their handgun skills I set them at 5-10ft away depending on how new they are to pistols. A lot of habits can be fixed with very clear immediate results in such a short range as well as I've found that this builds confidence during, after, and for future practice. Lastly I tell them when they can point,aim,and shoot groups at 10ft repeatedly then its time to grow some distance 5ft at a time. Just my 02.

Mine was a rhetorical question to the dawg, because he seemed to scoff at the OP for starting out at 20 ft. But the OP stated that he hits 80% in the black already. That's pretty good for a novice in my book.

[Buddhabelly]

Follow up to my earlier post... Look at his target with a 45. It's darn good. And he's approaching it the right way, checking Todd's video, know the 2 basic stances, etc... I just wonder as dawg scoffs at his shooting at 20 feet, which is only 7 yards, if he's looked at the target. I also wonder if dawg his 80% of his target with a 45 from 20 ft.

To the OP, when you miss left, you're "anticipating recoil" hence you overcompensate early while you aim. In this case, it could be because you were anticipating a 45 recoil in a 9, which of course exabetating the effect. Use the first pad of your trigger finger, make sure you are calm and ready for the shot before squeezing the trigger. You are making very impressive inroad. Perhaps don't go 5/5 on the switch.

[Stockton]

Mine was a rhetorical question to the dawg, because he seemed to scoff at the OP for starting out at 20 ft. But the OP stated that he hits 80% in the black already. That's pretty good for a novice in my book.

I understand....just trying to stay neutral and still provide some help to the op. Yes absolutely, his targets are very good for his skill set..no argument there! I believe he may be having a finger issue.

For the OP....this is a target I'm really fond of when it comes to assisting others in their mechanics. You can also get this from reloadbench.com for free in a printable version.

[maxicon]

Yeah, I agree, 7 yards is a fine distance for starting at. It's close enough to build confidence but far enough to see problems.

Likewise, those targets aren't half bad for a beginner. I've seen much worse at the range, including people hitting the hangers, walls, etc (you did get close to the hangers on a few). Sure, they can be a lot better, but practice makes perfect.

I'll also add to the recommendation to shoot from a rest. One of the first things you need to do is figure out what your gun and ammo combination is capable of, leaving your technique out of the equation as much as possible.

Use your range bag, a towel, a sweatshirt, whatever (but be aware it may get scorched).

Rest the gun on it, get on your knees or in a chair if they have them, and line up the sights carefully.

Sllloooowwwwly squeeze the trigger until the shot fires. Feel for any imperfections in the trigger travel - if you can't feel them, you're not squeezing slowly enough.

When the shot fires, ignore the holes in the target. Keep the sights lined up exatctly like before, keep slowly squeezing the trigger, and put 10 rounds into the target. Don't try to adjust for where they're hitting, just keep lined up on the bullseye.

This should make a reasonably tight group, and will be the best group you can get out of your gun and ammo combo. Anything bigger after that is due to your technique.

Next, lean against the side of the stall, and using the same slow squeeze and aiming, put 10 rounds in the next bull. This group is affected by your trigger squeeze and hand/arm stability. Be sure to notice where the round will end up, as you'll be shooting at an angle - you can either hit another shootier's target, if theirs is further down the lane, or the wall if you're next to it. Don't do either of these!

Next, stand up straight in whatever stance you like, and do it all again. You should be getting a good feel for the slow squeeze by now, and you'll know when you muff it (which you will). This group shows the extra inaccuracy due to your stance.

If you want, go to single handed strong hand, then single handed weak hand - again each will get bigger and bigger, showing where your errors are coming from.


Do the first 3 sets every time you go to the range. Really pay attention to the slow, steady squeeze, as that's a critical step towards accuracy. The more you do it, the faster you'll get, while still having a good trigger pull.

Report back with more target pics.