Purchasing a Springfield model without the "CA" product code

[mojambo]

Hi all,

I would really like to buy a Springfield Armory 1911 TRP in Black. The product number is PC9108LCA18. Apparently the "CA" portion of the product code indicates CA compliance, but the firearm does not actually have "CA" stamped on it anywhere. I found the following on the "Handguns Certified for Sale" website at oag.ca.gov when I filter guns by "Springfield":

"A "CA" designation at the end of Springfield product codes indicates the model has the integral locking system (ILS) and is the same handgun model as the one that was tested per California standards. The "CA" will not appear on the handgun."

So my question is - can I purchase the "same" gun from an out-of-state seller who has the non-CA model (PC9108L18) and get them to legally ship it to an FFL here in CA who can facilitate the transfer paperwork?

Thanks!

[SkyHawk]

No.

If it does not have ILS, it is not on the roster. You may find a clueless FFL who will not notice, but that is not likely.

[mojambo]

No.

If it does not have ILS, it is not on the roster. You may find a clueless FFL who will not notice, but that is not likely.

Wow, just, wow.

But thanks for the reply.

[heavyrecoil]

Didn’t you just post a whole thread like two days ago about acquiring a non-CA model SA MC Operator & how you decided to try to have your out-of-state dad get it for you as a “gift”? How many different ways are you going to ask the same question?

[redhemi]

If you looked at the roster there are five different PC9108 on it take you pick and order one.

[Mr. Blue]

Reference this website: https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search

You can only DROS a pistol with the exact part number. Springfield lists their part numbers so its easy. If a pistol looks identical, but doesn’t have a part number listed on the roster, it’s off roster and cannot be bought brand new.

Again, I suggest you do some research on this subject. You asked if a non-ca model can be sent here to for transfer paperwork. I have seen people manage to purchase a non-ca model and have it sent to their FFL. Only to be forced to try and resell it on GunBroker because the seller refuses to take it back, and the purchaser can’t DROS it. So do a bit of research on this…there isn’t a lot to know.

[mojambo]

I don't feel like what I've posted here, compared to my previous thread about the non-CA MC Operator, is "asking the same question". One was about getting clarification w.r.t. intra-familial, inter-state transfer (the MCO). I feel like I understand that scenario very well now, and it is still an option, albeit one that seems quite challenging, with many hoops to jump through.

So that's why the advice to consider the CA-compliant TRP seemed attractive - a gun I like equally well, but with a CA-compliant version. But when I searched LGSs, there were none to be found and special orders would get a significant mark-up over MSRP, as well as have an unknown ETA. Searching on gunbroker showed that the non-CA compliant version was in stock in some places, which led me to wondering about having a non-CA version shipped here and whether an FFL would do it. I felt like it was a valid question because the verbiage on the CA DOJ site was a bit confusing, as well as the roster not even listing the actual model numbers of Springfield 1911s that are absolutely CA-compliant. For instance, if you look at the roster, there is no PC9108LCA18 - the closest to that model # on the roster is PC9108L, PC9108LCA-G10, PC9108LFDECA, and PC9108LYCA. None of these model numbers match the CA-compliant SA TRP of PC9108LCA18 (black) or PC9107LCA18 (stainless). This was confusing to me and led me to believe that FFLs might be able to have some wiggle room in what they could transfer. After all, if I bought a PC9108LCA18 from out-of-state, I would fully expect that an FFL could process that transfer. True or not true? I don't know! Thus the new thread to inquire about it.

[mojambo]

If you looked at the roster there are five different PC9108 on it take you pick and order one.

Yes, but none of the 5 listed would appear to be in production. The only models of 1911 TRP listed on the SA website are the following:

PC9108L18 (black, no rail)
PC9108LCA18 (black, no rail, CA compliant)
PC9107L18 (stainless, no rail)
PC9107LCA18 (stainless, no rail, CA compliant)
PC9105L18 (black, rail)
PC9105LCA18 (black, full rail, CA compliant)

while the only models on the roster are

PC9108L
PC9108L
PC9108LCA-G10
PC9108LFDECA
PC9108LYCA
PC9107L
PC9107LCA-G10
PC9105LCA
PC9105LCA

So, none of the model numbers match between current production TRPs and rostered TRPs. Does this mean that gun shops can't sell the CA-compliant models listed on SA's own website? I would doubt that very much! So it makes me wonder if there is some wiggle room when it comes to model numbers matching? (i.e. PC9108L18 is close enough to PC9108L)?

So, this is all very confusing. The last thing I want is to order a gun, have it shipped to an FFL, and then have the FFL not be able to complete the purchase due to roster concern, then have to pay to have it shipped back & possibly a restock fee.

[mojambo]

Reference this website: https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search

Please see my replies directly above this one. In summary, since none of the current SA 1911 TRP models numbers match any of the SA model numbers on the roster, then when you state that "You can only DROS a pistol with the exact part number", that would imply that no LGS or FFL can complete a purchase for one of the current SA firearms. But surely that can't be the case, can it?

[foothillman]

Yes, but none of the 5 listed would appear to be in production. The only models of 1911 TRP listed on the SA website are the following:

PC9108L18 (black, no rail)
PC9108LCA18 (black, no rail, CA compliant)
PC9107L18 (stainless, no rail)
PC9107LCA18 (stainless, no rail, CA compliant)
PC9105L18 (black, rail)
PC9105LCA18 (black, full rail, CA compliant)

while the only models on the roster are

PC9108L
PC9108L
PC9108LCA-G10
PC9108LFDECA
PC9108LYCA
PC9107L
PC9107LCA-G10
PC9105LCA
PC9105LCA

So, none of the model numbers match between current production TRPs and rostered TRPs. Does this mean that gun shops can't sell the CA-compliant models listed on SA's own website? I would doubt that very much! So it makes me wonder if there is some wiggle room when it comes to model numbers matching? (i.e. PC9108L18 is close enough to PC9108L)?

So, this is all very confusing. The last thing I want is to order a gun, have it shipped to an FFL, and then have the FFL not be able to complete the purchase due to roster concern, then have to pay to have it shipped back & possibly a restock fee.

You need to find a FFL first.
They will tell you what models they will transfer.
Find out how much they will charge for accepting.
Ball park is +$50/$100

I purchased 2 SA 1911s only a few years apart.
During this time they added the "CA"
Both my 1911s are on Roster and will continue to be as long as they pay the fee every year.
The number can have added letters as noted in red.



Looks like they note the grips as being "G10"
Also color "FDE"

32030.


(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 32015 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:

(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.

(2) The material from which the grips are made.

(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm listed under this section shall provide to the Department of Justice all of the following:

(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.

(2) The model designation of each firearm that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under this section.

(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted firearm for which listing is sought differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all other respects identical to the listed firearm.

(c) The department may, in its discretion and at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to the department any model for which listing is sought under this section, to determine whether the model complies with the requirements of this section.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

Same 1911 only a few years apart.



The key is the FFL you are using.
Make sure you are talking to right employee that will be accepting and DROS.
Luckily I live in a small town, first name basis with FFL.
Having a relationship helps keep the stress down on mail order/GunBroker.
Lots of firearms on Roster but no longer manufactured so out of State is a good source.

One day they will be back in stock at your local FFL.
Have them order it and call you when in stock.
Sucks that out of State FFLs have CA firearms in stock keeping them from our FFLs.

[SkyHawk]

The thing that has started all of this change in the SKUs is that Springfield stopped putting ILS on all their 1911s that ship to free states.

Without ILS, they are off roster. The only way to know it will have ILS now when ordering, is the CA in the SKU.

They started doing this in 2018. Presumably then, the "18" in the SKU would indicate guns that do not have ILS. You would need to call SA to confirm, as that is only a guess on my part.

This is not an issue of grip color or sights etc, this is all about the Internal Locking System

Also note that while changes to color and grip are allowed, GUNS WITH THOSE CHANGES MUST STILL BE LISTED ON THE ROSTER SEPARATELY. The exemption is not automatic, the exemption just gives the mfg a pass to get the guns listed on the roster assuming no other significant changes have been made. If a gun is listed as "blued" and you get one FDE, it is not a roster gun unless it is also listed as FDE.

I do agree that in the end, the only opinion that matters is your transfer FFL. That is where the rubber meets the road, and nothing we say or do here will influence the outcome.

[Harry Ono]

Yes very confusing. But very common to find Roster Handguns but not in production or other reasons cannot be sold.

Case in point : Sig 230 in 380. Completely banned by Germany to be exported to the USA, yet still on the Gun Roster. Its one slick 380 that shoots great.
Yet on the California Roster and

The good news is web stores like Buds Gunshop have special filters for California or Mass or NY compliant guns.
So you can filter out CA non compliant guns. They list 4 1911s, but out of stock. I would give them a call.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/search.php/type/Firearms_Handguns/exclusive/ca/manu/197_2513

Your best deal is have your dad from out of state send you the best 1911 from a free state for your birthday.
You dont have to fussy around with SKUs or Roster list or anything else.

[FatOnCoke]

Foothillman's got your answer! Know your FFL and what is on the DROS screen.
The model number on the box does not matter. Not all sellers keep the original box with the factory label.
As long your pistol is what is listed in the CA handgun list you are good! The most important part is the FFL. You are already F'ed if you are planning to argue with the FFL.

[M1NM]

Sounds like we're back to the guy who had his mom in AZ buy him an off roster gun gift every couple weeks and was upset when an AZ FFL finally refused to do the straw purchase.

[mojambo]

Foothillman's got your answer! Know your FFL and what is on the DROS screen.
The model number on the box does not matter. Not all sellers keep the original box with the factory label.
As long your pistol is what is listed in the CA handgun list you are good! The most important part is the FFL. You are already F'ed if you are planning to argue with the FFL.

That's good advice, thanks