Transporting Pistol Question

[Librarian]

You do not have to open the locked container, WITHOUT A WARRANT.

Not accurate.

If a LEO has a belief you have a firearm in public, he/she may demand to inspect it to see if it might be (illegally) loaded.

25850.

(a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(b) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

It's therefore useful to have a 'generic' case that does not advertise the content.

[Dvrjon]

Question, can that full magazine be in the same locked container? And can a box of ammunition be in the same locked container or does the ammo/magazine need to be in a separate locked or unlocked container?

You have the answers to these questions, but if you are concerned LEOs might not understand them, or might disagree, then your safe bet is to lock the ammo in a secure container without firearms. Lock the firearms separately.

That insulates you from violations due to school grounds, government buildings, the streets of Sacramento, and every other cockamamie constraint currently in place.

The questions become irrelevant.

Does it make any difference inside the locked case if the pistol has a cable lock threaded through the mag bay or barrel if the ammo can't be in the same locked container?

To date I have always seen the unloaded pistol, full magazine and/or ammo in the same locked container...

[Oceanbob]

It's therefore useful to have a 'generic' case that does not advertise the content.

Exactly.

[beerman]

I’m going off program here a bit and someone correct me if I’m wrong. If one does happen to be caught with an unlocked and loaded pistol in ones car, you better hope that gun is legally registered to you. If it is, you’ll most likely be arrested for a misdemeanor... if it’s not registered to you, you’ll be arrested for a felony.

[Dvrjon]

You do not have to open the locked container, WITHOUT A WARRANT.

[RickD427]

You do not have to open the locked container, WITHOUT A WARRANT.

Not accurate.

If a LEO has a belief you have a firearm in public, he/she may demand to inspect it to see if it might be (illegally) loaded.

It's therefore useful to have a 'generic' case that does not advertise the content.

In addition to the comments made above, you also cannot be required to open the container, even if the LEO has a warrant.

A warrant simply authorizes the LEO to conduct a search. It does not command the subject of the search to provide any assistance.

But also remember that a search warrant is hardly ever required when a LEO has probable cause to believe that there is contraband, or evidence of a crime, contained within a vehicle. The key case law is contained in the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in U.S. v Ross. Here are the key words from that decision:

"We hold that the scope of the warrantless search authorized by that exception is no broader and no narrower than a magistrate could legitimately authorize by warrant. If probable cause justifies the search of a lawfully stopped vehicle, it justifies the search of every part of the vehicle and its contents that may conceal the object of the search."

To expand on Librarian's posting, California courts have gone even further to permit warrantless vehicle searches in cases where the LEO has probable cause to believe that lawfully transported firearms are present in order to conduct a check to determine if they are loaded (refer to People v DeLong).

[Casoobaru]

In addition to the comments made above, you also cannot be required to open the container, even if the LEO has a warrant.

A warrant simply authorizes the LEO to conduct a search. It does not command the subject of the search to provide any assistance.

But also remember that a search warrant is hardly ever required when a LEO has probable cause to believe that there is contraband, or evidence of a crime, contained within a vehicle. The key case law is contained in the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in U.S. v Ross. Here are the key words from that decision:

"We hold that the scope of the warrantless search authorized by that exception is no broader and no narrower than a magistrate could legitimately authorize by warrant. If probable cause justifies the search of a lawfully stopped vehicle, it justifies the search of every part of the vehicle and its contents that may conceal the object of the search."

To expand on Librarian's posting, California courts have gone even further to permit warrantless vehicle searches in cases where the LEO has probable cause to believe that lawfully transported firearms are present in order to conduct a check to determine if they are loaded (refer to People v DeLong).

Is this what you are talking about?

https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/11/786.html

A campus policeman at Diablo Valley College, using binoculars, saw a group of people gathered about a red automobile. A rifle was taken from the vehicle by appellant and was placed in a brown automobile.

Then they searched him and found no guns but found marijuana.
Also this was 1970 so maybe a different case?

[Dvrjon]

Is this what you are talking about?

https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/11/786.html

A campus policeman at Diablo Valley College, using binoculars, saw a group of people gathered about a red automobile. A rifle was taken from the vehicle by appellant and was placed in a brown automobile.

Then they searched him and found no guns but found marijuana.
Also this was 1970 so maybe a different case?

Please re-read the case. They searched the red vehicle and found two firearms in the trunk, along with marijuana. FACTS, 1st para:

The officer saw two other firearms, which he thought were rifles, in the trunk of the red car. Appellant departed on foot, but returned a half hour later; meanwhile, an officer staked out the stationary red car. A deputy sheriff was sent to the scene. The deputy informed appellant, who was sitting at the wheel of the car, that he had been notified of the presence of rifles in the trunk of the car. Appellant denied the presence of any guns, whereupon the deputy requested appellant to open the trunk. Appellant replied that he did not have a key thereto. The deputy then ordered appellant to exit the vehicle. After appellant had alighted, he dropped a key. The officers opened the trunk with the key for the purpose of determining whether the guns therein were loaded. Discovered in the trunk were a rifle and a shotgun, both of which, upon examination, proved to be unloaded. [11 Cal. App. 3d 789] A quantity of marijuana was in plain view. Appellant was then placed under arrest for possession of marijuana. He had not violated any gun law.

Having found the guns, they determined that there was no firearm violation. BUT, the marijuana discovered during the search was a problem. So, the defense was to invalidate the search, eliminating the marijuana from consideration.

[naz]

.

It's therefore useful to have a 'generic' case that does not advertise the content.

What is your recommendation for such a case for a long gun?

[OCEquestrian]

What is your recommendation for such a case for a long gun?

Violin case?

[RickD427]

Is this what you are talking about?

https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/11/786.html

A campus policeman at Diablo Valley College, using binoculars, saw a group of people gathered about a red automobile. A rifle was taken from the vehicle by appellant and was placed in a brown automobile.

Then they searched him and found no guns but found marijuana.
Also this was 1970 so maybe a different case?

Yes, that is the case.

But please note Dvrjon's correction to your misunderstanding of the case in the above post.

The case is quite unique in that it applied principles of criminal search and seizure law to a non-criminal matter.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I think if there was an issue, that the definition of a locked container might come into question. I would just buy a nice herd case To use to be on the safe side, especially in the Bay Area with its anti gun prosecutors. A nice 2 gun hard case can also be used inside hard luggage anytime you travel by air.

The pistols are locked in their own soft cases, and then locked again in a separate external lockable pocket on a range bag, and ammo is locked in yet another separate compartment in the range bag. If I wanted to get to the ammo Id have to unlock that compartment. If I wanted access to my firearm I'd have to first unlock the external compartment on the bag, and then unlock the soft case. This is well within the law.

Only time I'm actually transporting my firearms is when I'm going to the range or to the airport to fly to a class. Where I flay they are in locked Pelican knock-off hardcases inside my hard-sided suitcases.No way I'm going through all that hard-sided case stuff when I'm jsut going for a quick range trip. If it's a road trip that's a different story, but usually not and I used the locked soft case inside the locked range bag with ammo in a separate locked compartment, or if I'm bringing a lot of ammo I'll put the ammo in an ammo can. Ammo actually doesn't have to be locked up. It's not like you have to locked up your ammo once you leave the store after buying it and lock it up in a case inside your car as you're driving home.

[Librarian]

What is your recommendation for such a case for a long gun?

Guitar bags/cases have good records. Some gun cases for guns you can disassemble are OK.

For handguns, as already posted, a locking briefcase might serve.

Look into 'discreet gun cases'.

[naz]

Look into 'discreet gun cases'.

[Librarian]

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I never thought any of the “discrete gun cases” are discrete and I think guitars are also high value items targeted for theft (but I guess if the point is to try and make it look to Leo that you don’t have a gun it’s fun).

So I was hoping for specific examples of what others thought was “discrete”

I mostly don't worry about that, but I did buy one of these - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...ie=UTF8&psc=1; a taken-down AR fits nicely. And, since it is actually a gun case, for ordinary transport of a non-assault-weapon long gun, does not even need to be locked.

And that's 'discreet' - as in 'unobtrusive', rather than 'discrete' as 'separate'.