Exempt pistol transfer question

[Dirtbiker]

I'm looking into buying a single action pistol from up north. What is the process in getting it shipped?

Can the seller ship it direct to my FFL or does it have to go from FFL to FFL?

[Vin496]

I'm looking into buying a single action pistol from up north. What is the process in getting it shipped?

Can the seller ship it direct to my FFL or does it have to go from FFL to FFL?

Only FFL required by law is your FFL. Though many FFLs will not accept a gun from a non FFL, so check with yours 1st to see if they will accept from a non FFL.

Is that enough FFLs? LOL.

Here is the thing shipping a gun by a non FL can only be done through FedEx or UPS, the gun must be declared(by law) and shipped overnight. No where on the box can it list it's contents. Also must be shipped from a UPS/Fedex Hub, not a Kinkos/UPS store.

I have done this and it will cost around $60+.

If you use an FFL to ship depending on the FFL, the prices can be less, since they are allowed to ship USPS. Check with the shipping FFL first, for their prices.

[ke6guj]

Here is the thing shipping a gun by a non FL can only be done through FedEx or UPS, the gun must be declared(by law) and shipped overnight. No where on the box can it list it's contents. Also must be shipped from a UPS/Fedex Hub, not a Kinkos/UPS store.

bolded part is incorrect. If being shipped to an FFL, federal law does not require you to declare to the shipper that you are shipping a firearm. Now, UPS/Fedex rules may require declaration in order to be able to collect the insurance if lost/damaged, but it is not against the law to not declare a firearms shipmnet going to an FFL.

If you use an FFL to ship depending on the FFL, the prices can be less, since they are allowed to ship USPS. Check with the shipping FFL first, for their prices.

yup, may be cheaper, even after you pay the shipping FFL for their time. Plus, since the shipment is now coming from an FFL, the CFLC process has to complied with as well.

[dfletcher]

Regarding the handgun being shipped from a nonFFL to your FFL, I think communication in advance is the key.

If your FFL states he'll accept the gun with a photocopy of the sender's DL be certain of what he means - as in, with the guy's photo clearly showing and with the guy's address & with the guy's DL # clearly visible. Then make certain the sender is informed in writing of the exact requirements - you don't want the guy's DL showing up with the address and/or DL # blacked out and have to get involved in conflict negotiations with a guy who won't send more info and the FFL who won't release your gun.

[Vin496]

bolded part is incorrect. If being shipped to an FFL, federal law does not require you to declare to the shipper that you are shipping a firearm. Now, UPS/Fedex rules may require declaration in order to be able to collect the insurance if lost/damaged, but it is not against the law to not declare a firearms shipmnet going to an FFL.

You sure about that?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

[ke6guj]

You sure about that?

yup. The ATF FAQ is incorrect/incomplete.

Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger
who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported
aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said
firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor
or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that
trip without violating any provision of this part.

that part about "to any person other than a licensed......." is the importatnt part. If you are shipping to one of those licensed people, you don't have to provide written notice to the carrier.

[Vin496]

yup. The ATF FAQ is incorrect/incomplete.

that part about "to any person other than a licensed......." is the importatnt part. If you are shipping to one of those licensed people, you don't have to provide written notice to the carrier.

Maybe I'm just dense, but what I read is,

No person shall send via contract carrier a firearm to anyone other those licensed(importer,manufacturer,dealer,collector) without informing the carrier.

Where does it say it is not necessary to inform them?

[ke6guj]

Maybe I'm just dense, but what I read is,

No person shall send via contract carrier a firearm to anyone other those licensed(importer,manufacturer,dealer,collector) without informing the carrier.

Where does it say it is not necessary to inform them?

it doesn't. Turn it aroudn, where does it say that it IS necessary to inform them when shipping to a licensed individual. It doesn't.

That is because the PC and federal codes normally work as "everything is legal unless specifically prohibited." So, if if the law states that if you are shipping to a non-licensed individual, you must inform the shipper, and does not include shipments to licensees in that law, then it does not apply when shipping to a licensee.

[Vin496]

it doesn't. Turn it aroudn, where does it say that it IS necessary to inform them when shipping to a licensed individual. It doesn't.

That is because the PC and federal codes normally work as "everything is legal unless specifically prohibited." So, if if the law states that if you are shipping to a non-licensed individual, you must inform the shipper, and does not include shipments to licensees in that law, then it does not apply when shipping to a licensee.

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped

Doesn't that say right there, the carrier must be informed?

I am just not following your train of thought.

This section say you can only use a common carrier to ship to a licensed individual, and must inform the carrier.

[ke6guj]

Doesn't that say right there, the carrier must be informed?

If I am shipping to a person OTHER than a licensed..... then that section does not apply to me.

[Vin496]

If I am shipping to a person OTHER than a licensed..... then that section does not apply to me.

Then what was your point?

We were talking about shipping to an FFL, you said I was wrong in that FedEx/UPS had to be informed by law.

Now your saying you must inform them if you ship to a licensed person, just not if the person is "Other".

We were never talking about an "other" person, we were talking about a licensed person.

[hawk1]

Also make sure that it comforms to exemption: 6" barrel and 10.5 oal.

Those numbers are wrong.


The exemption is:

• Single-shot pistols with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that have an overall length of at least

[ke6guj]

Then what was your point?

We were talking about shipping to an FFL, you said I was wrong in that FedEx/UPS had to be informed by law.

Now your saying you must inform them if you ship to a licensed person, just not if the person is "Other".

We were never talking about an "other" person, we were talking about a licensed person.

my mistake, I totally said that wrong.

I meant, if I am shipping a firearm to a person other than a licensed .... then that section DOES apply. But if I am shipping to a licensed person, then that section does not apply.

[Vin496]

Oh man you had me all confused, lol.

Now clear this up for me, what is an "other"?

Would that be me shipping a pistol to myself, from one State to another? Or a father shipping a gun to his son within the same State?

[ke6guj]

Oh man you had me all confused, lol.

Now clear this up for me, what is an "other"?

Would that be me shipping a pistol to myself, from one State to another?

yup. Or a executor of an estate shipping a firearm to a benefiary of the estate.

Or a father shipping a gun to his son within the same State?

that would be an intrastate transfer, and federal law does not normally apply in that situation. Notice tht 478.31 applies to interstate and foreign commerce, not intrastate commerce.