Red dot help

[bug_eyedmonster]

I'm starting to dabble in the world of pistol mounted red dots again, and had a couple of questions I was hoping to get help with. My initial issues were with the increased height of them when I tried a red dot on a Glock and also on a USPSA open gun. My point of aim always brought the gun too high, causing me to take time to find the dot. I recently got another Glock, and decided I needed to spend more time with it. After more dry fire practice (lack of range time with requirements to stay home), and some tinkering, I've decided to get a 1911 milled. I talked with my gunsmith, and decided that the RMR route was not ideal with the overhang and adapters necessary, since it would raise the RDS higher than what I'd like. Then we started talking about the Shield RMSC. I know it's not the most rugged sight, so I'm looking for other options similar in size.

I remember seeing a video some time ago regarding Sig's new entries, but there's very little info out there. I have also heard that Holosun's new options are leaps and bounds better than their previous knock-offs, and worth another look. But the issue I have is size and slide cuts. What would be ideal for the 1911 slide width while keeping as low as possible? I know the RMR is supposed king, but I'm hoping there are narrower options out there.


Jerry

[Mute]

The Holosun HS407k and HS507k were both designed to fit the RMSC footprint. I believe they had the subcompacts like the Shield, P365 and Hellcat in mind when they designed these optics. If you wanted something with a smaller footprint these would be ideal. As long as you cut your slide to fit the RMSC base you should be able to use these optics.

[bug_eyedmonster]

The Holosun HS407k and HS507k were both designed to fit the RMSC footprint. I believe they had the subcompacts like the Shield, P365 and Hellcat in mind when they designed these optics. If you wanted something with a smaller footprint these would be ideal. As long as you cut your slide to fit the RMSC base you should be able to use these optics.

Yes, I've seen those as options, but from what I have read, they aren't actually released yet. They do look interesting though.

Jerry

[ef9boy88]

Yes, I've seen those as options, but from what I have read, they aren't actually released yet. They do look interesting though.

Jerry

Correct they should be out around summer time.

[zfields]

Wait a few months for the Holosun offerings IMO, along with some time for the bugs.

The RMS is hot garbage.

Also, swampfox is supposed to release a new one to fit the RMS footprint. The guy heading the project is extremely passionate about putting out a good product, so I have high hopes for it.

[Mute]

I checked out the Sig offerings at SHOT and they looked ok to me. Personally, I'd wait for the Holosuns. I think they're better optics overall.

[Scotty]

I've decided to get a 1911 milled. I talked with my gunsmith, and decided that the RMR route was not ideal with the overhang and adapters necessary, since it would raise the RDS higher than what I'd like.

Just bury the sight low. Back in the IPSC Modified days, they were burying the sights pretty low on the slide.

[Snoopy47]

My point of aim always brought the gun too high, causing me to take time to find the dot.

That's because you are holding the gun wrong. A high sitting Red Dot is inconsequentially different at farther targets.

I've found using my RED DOT as a training device for point shoot practice is AWESOME. Because the barrel is where ever it's going. The Red Dot just shows you where the barrel is pointed. If you can't find the dot, it's because you were never pointed at the target.

Now granted, a high sitting Red Dot will have a different POA at 5 yards, but that really isn't such the case at 25 yards.


Below I have a TRP with a milled slide using a first generation Delta Point. It has served me well, and I've never shot a better group with anything else (3 rounds inside a quarter at 25 yards). The consequences are I really can't find a buyer for this gun. I am locked into my red dot choice as an expense delta point if I was to ever upgrade. I can't convert the gun to stock and sell as just a used TRP.

HOWEVER, I am satisfied with this platform I have no intentions of ever milling another 1911. I could do a lot worse.



Next I have a Glock 17 with a C-More sight. Here I was going for an Open Class gun, and the framed mounted sight gives me both quicker sight acquisition because the sight is not moving with the slide, AND it adds weight to the gun. Down side of course is this is the highest sight height you can end up with, but as I found out, that sight height washes out the farther I go, and up close it doesn't really matter anyway, because CLOSE targets are about FAST not about accuracy.



Finally, here I have a 1911 with an adapter plate. It's a Les Baer Monolith, and there is NO WAY I was going to cut up the slide. Ironically, it has a FastFire III (about as inexpensive as it gets), but it holds zero, and doesn't blank out from recoil. It wont hold up in swaps, but I'm not an operator. Funny thing, it has an on/off switch, and multiple brightness settings. The gen 1 Delta Point has NONE OF THOSE (motion activated, and no brightness settings). And the gen 1 Delta is a BOTTOM installed battery, so I have to re-zero it when I change batteries, even the inexpensive FastFire III is TOP installed.

Compare to my TRP with the milled slide the height is inconsequential.



Now............

1) You say you have trouble finding the sight.......... Well, that's not because of sight height. With IRON sights you can adjust as you are raising the gun and not notice that your wrist is compensating on the way up. Red Dots show you where you are holding and force you to correct yourself or keep looking for the sight.

1a) Perfect exercise: With the gun in the low ready, LOOK DOWN THE SIGHTS as you bring up the gun. FOLLOW your sights as you raise the gun. Eventually, you won't have to look down anymore, and the sights will be where you want them to be without having to look at them.

2) Do you mill the slide, frame mount the Red Dot, or use an adapter plate?

A milled slide has resale draw backs, and technology upgrade draw backs. However, its the easiest to find a duty type holster for. It is also coolest looking BY FAR.

A frame mounted Red Dot should focus on the SIGHT's capabilities and shooting performance. If you are going to go to all that trouble to add all that extra junk on the gun the sight should give you the most mechanical advantage as it can. That's why I went with the C-More, because the lens itself is the largest surface area on a red dot. Which MEANS I can KEEP THE RED DOT IN THE LENS during recoil. This makes follow ups about as fast as I can physically make them.

THIS ALSO SHOWS ME HOW I'M NOT HOLDING THE GUN CORRECTLY.

On recoil, when I fire my G17 Open gun, the Dot tracks upward and to the RIGHT. Which MEANS I am not exerting equal physical grip on BOTH sides of the gun. Right???? It should simply go up/down, up/down, not left or right.

Anyway, that's something I have to work on.

[sigstroker]

The cool kids use the Leupold Delta Point Pro, seems reasonably durable.

[bug_eyedmonster]

The cool kids use the Leupold Delta Point Pro, seems reasonably durable.

I recently mounted one on my G45 MOS, it's not bad, but wide. It overhangs even the standard width of the Glock slide, so I was hoping to get something narrower that would not overhang the 1911 slide width. I like the DPP though, the window is huge compared to the RMRs I have, and the auto adjusting brightness works better than my RMRs, but they are adjustable manually as well. I just dunno about the durability. Aaron still holds the RMR as the gold standard in terms of durability. Since I'm not willing to drop my red dots on concrete, I'll have to take his word for it. Still, doesn't hurt to explore.


Jerry

[Revoman]

Take a look at Ultra Dot L/T line. They are small with a wide screen and at around $250ish, they should fit right in.
Instead for removal for battery changes, there is a battery 'drawer' that contains the battery for super easy changes, no removal required.

http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_003.htm