Handgun training Los Angeles

[krb]

Hi. Does anyone have any experience with greg block or michael Rowan?
Thank you!

[champu]

Hi. Does anyone have any experience with greg block or michael Rowan?
Thank you!

[YoungJoe]

I have taken two classes with Rowan. Very good sessions and classes were small so you got plenty of attention, though I couldn't tell you if class size was deliberate or I just got lucky.

Covered 6 also has great classes for different levels of shooters. Bigger class sizes but multiple instructors too.

[OCEquestrian]

Hi. Does anyone have any experience with greg block or michael Rowan?
Thank you!

What is your level of experience and what are you looking to get out of a class?

You should spend some time / research in the training and competition forum...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1494749&highlight=Poll

[Stumpfenhammer]

I have the same question. Is this for a CCW class, practical defense for person and home, basic or advanced handgun proficiency?

I've done CCW cert classes with four different instructors in OC....out of those, two ran what I would consider an unsafe range and one ran a great class but later turned out to have grossly misrepresented his CV. The two that I considered unsafe get plenty of positive feedback from other students, but we all tend to see different things depending on our experience. Anyway, for CCW certs the one that best fit my personal expectations was Hansen Firearms Training https://www.californiagunpermit.com

If it's practical defense for person or home, I think you can't go wrong with ITTS https://internationaltactical.com They provide very solid training in the nuts and bolts fundamentals of the type of gunfighting that most civilians and LEO would need to do. The owner and lead instructor has an extensive history with LAPD SWAT, Metro and LAPD training, and was the primary shooter in five incidents with all rounds accounted for (virtually unheard of), he's also the only trainer I know who has actually used a handheld flashlight tactically in a shooting. He also regularly consults as an expert witness in shooting cases, so students get the benefit of his personal knowledge of what happens after a shooting and how to avoid the mistakes others have made. Sometimes they get panned as being too basic or old school, but the more experience I get the more I think that's a good thing.

If your focus is on achieving a high level of technical handgun proficiency (for any kind of shooting) then -- short of searching out a unique local asset -- I would suggest that the easiest way to get that is the Handgun Mastery program from Tactical Performance Center. From my perspective, they have two key influences driving their program (1) They have very deep experience in practical shooting competitions (Brian Nelson is a top 3gun competitor/sponsored shooter, Ken Nelson, among other things, is the inventor of Practiscore) and practical shooting (i.e. USPSA, Steel Challenge, 3gun, etc) is what's been driving the last decade's shift in interest to high-level shooting skills. (2) Until his recent passing, their co-founder was Ron Avery, former LEO and high-level competitive pistol shooter, you can do a little research on him, but he was a phenomenally talented instructor, obsessive about the details that matter, driven to find the best ways to do things, and very systematic and analytical, which is all evident in his shooting system and what TPC currently teaches. Calgunner TANKS has done a lot of training with them and would be worth PM'ing for more input. https://tacticalperformancecenter.com

There are some standout traveling instructors as well depending on what you want and where you are at with regards to experience.

[krb]

What is your level of experience and what are you looking to get out of a class?

You should spend some time / research in the training and competition forum...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...highlight=Poll

I've taken over a half dozen, probably a dozen handgun courses. Began with drawing and shooting, ending with moving and shooting (running and walking), multiple targets (not moving targets though) and shooting around barriers. I've done a few competitions and they were super fun but they are far and involve 98% sitting and waiting and 2% doing something so the amount of sitting around time lessens its appeal.

Looking to get out of a class comfort with carrying - comfort with the mechanics of drawing and shooting but mostly comfort with real life situations. Draw-don't draw. I'm planning on going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch sometime 2020. Probably Gunsite just because traveling there may be easier but haven't compared the two extensively enough yet.

[Stumpfenhammer]

I've taken over a half dozen, probably a dozen handgun courses. Began with drawing and shooting, ending with moving and shooting (running and walking), multiple targets (not moving targets though) and shooting around barriers. I've done a few competitions and they were super fun but they are far and involve 98% sitting and waiting and 2% doing something so the amount of sitting around time lessens its appeal.

Looking to get out of a class comfort with carrying - comfort with the mechanics of drawing and shooting but mostly comfort with real life situations. Draw-don't draw. I'm planning on going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch sometime 2020. Probably Gunsite just because traveling there may be easier but haven't compared the two extensively enough yet.

I enjoyed my time at TR and Gunsite, both are similar to ITTS IMO, and the differences are mostly in length and training equipment and facility amenities. Of course you'll get more out of five days at Gunsite than two at ITTS, but quality overall is on par.

Sounds like you have a solid base in defensive shooting....based on that I'd recommend TPC. Giving yourself the gift of a high degree of technical shooting proficiency is something that will continue to satisfy you no matter where you go to train next.

For "comfort with carrying" you should take a serious look at Jeff Gonzales's CCW class in LA in December...it will fill up so if there's a slot available I'd jump on it: https://www.aztectrainingservices.co...los-angeles-ca. Here are a couple videos with Jeff discussing CCW concepts: https://youtu.be/gUf_x_uv2yQ https://youtu.be/9hMbJKejxLY

Jeff holds a very tight pass or fail standard for his courses. You will be held accountable for "every round fired" in his courses. That's a good thing and keeps the course from turning into "shooting entertainment".

Another piece of the puzzle is Integrated Combatives. Most classes seem predicated on the assumption that you will be able to get to your gun to solve a problem, these two instructors are the best out there when it comes to addressing what happens when you can't: https://youtu.be/x6tUG01vTiA. https://youtu.be/603kfkCUig0

[champu]

I've taken over a half dozen, probably a dozen handgun courses. Began with drawing and shooting, ending with moving and shooting (running and walking), multiple targets (not moving targets though) and shooting around barriers. I've done a few competitions and they were super fun but they are far and involve 98% sitting and waiting and 2% doing something so the amount of sitting around time lessens its appeal.

Looking to get out of a class comfort with carrying - comfort with the mechanics of drawing and shooting but mostly comfort with real life situations. Draw-don't draw. I'm planning on going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch sometime 2020. Probably Gunsite just because traveling there may be easier but haven't compared the two extensively enough yet.

Based on that experience I'd say skip Greg Block's class(es).

[krb]

Based on that experience I'd say skip Greg Block's class(es).

[Stumpfenhammer]

Another to consider: Bill Rapier is going to be teaching a 2-day Low-Light course near Los Angeles, December 12-13. Pretty much everyone in that class (and most of his classes) will be shooting from concealment. Here's a video review of his FoF course...his LL course will have a similar tempo and reality-based structure: https://youtu.be/6Z_NrLLZXRI

[OCEquestrian]

I've taken over a half dozen, probably a dozen handgun courses. Began with drawing and shooting, ending with moving and shooting (running and walking), multiple targets (not moving targets though) and shooting around barriers. I've done a few competitions and they were super fun but they are far and involve 98% sitting and waiting and 2% doing something so the amount of sitting around time lessens its appeal.

Looking to get out of a class comfort with carrying - comfort with the mechanics of drawing and shooting but mostly comfort with real life situations. Draw-don't draw. I'm planning on going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch sometime 2020. Probably Gunsite just because traveling there may be easier but haven't compared the two extensively enough yet.

I too would say dont bother with Blocks class.. they are "basic". Solid but basic classes and the type of people on the line to your left and right will reflect that.

If you want to learn to "fight with your handgun" I suggest you give these guys a try... they have their Tactical handgun I & II coming up in January 2019 (1/10-11). Completion of the Tactical handgun classes are required to be able to move on to the advanced tactics classes offered unless you already possess sound basics from another recognized instructor/school. That way the students in the advanced classes have been vetted for skill set / ability.

Website: https://dag-usa.com/

Instructor bio's: https://dag-usa.com/intel-2/cadre/

classes: https://dag-usa.com/courses/

Calandar:https://dag-usa.com/training-calendar/

[krb]

I too would say dont bother with Blocks class.. they are "basic". Solid but basic classes and the type of people on the line to your left and right will reflect that.

If you want to learn to "fight with your handgun" I suggest you give these guys a try... they have their Tactical handgun I & II coming up in January 2019 (1/10-11). Completion of the Tactical handgun classes are required to be able to move on to the advanced tactics classes offered. That way the students in the advanced classes have been vetted for skill set / ability.

Website: https://dag-usa.com/

Instructor bio's: https://dag-usa.com/intel-2/cadre/

classes: https://dag-usa.com/courses/

Calandar:https://dag-usa.com/training-calendar/

[OCEquestrian]

Thank you so much stumpfenhammer and equestrian.
I’m restricted from Saturday’s so all the Saturday Sunday classes are verboten to me. I would bet I’d have to get some guys together and arrange Sunday privates. Do you think DAG and Aztec are equivalent? What are your thoughts on ITTS? I’ve heard good things about them too. Gunsite and TR are expensive obviously but also there’s transportation and housing and meals to add on. I’m wondering if it would be cost effective to do privates locally. I emailed Gunsite and they said their 250 class is a prerequisite for everything else but it sounded like it will be populated by beginners or at least enough that I might be nervous it might go too slow for me. On the other hand “Gunsite.” I mean if you have the opportunity you have to do it right? On the other hand ... if hiring a private instructor ends up costing about the same, the private instructor can probably gauge me and my ability and move me along based on my competency so I might progress faster with a private. I’d probably have to get a small group of friends to make it more cost friendly.

Any thoughts on itts and private vs Gunsite? I’m starting to get super excited!

From my perspective, based on paper, DAG, Aztec and ITTS are all squared away outfits run by training professionals. Personally I have been training with DAG for over 20 years. I attended GunSite for two classes about 20 years ago. I got to meet Col. Cooper and his wife but sadly he was semi retired from training by then.

Gunsite was the original private tactical school that created an industry and Thunder Ranch's Clint Smith was one of the original instructors at GunSite (then called API). Both are still premier tactical schools well worth the time / money / effort to attend.

I know that ITTS and DAG will do small group private classes as well. They run local classes at Burro Canyon in LA and Sac Valley Shooting Center in Sacramento. They do quite a bit of on the road LE/ Military only classes as well.

Here are a few youtube videos from DAG / Max Joseph to get an idea of the focus /teaching style.

Max Joseph (founder) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73UfvxXWwkg

Five stages of escalation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtWfdumuHqc

Position SUL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq-amA56Ge4

Vehicle engagement Ops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7K2CY-s5dA

Demo videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHMGOrkbPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqiRQ-dsZRs

[Super Chicken]

Tagged

[champu]

Why? Feel free to pm if you think it’s more appropriate.

Sorry, that was unnecessarily cryptic on my part. I’d say skip it because his courses are likely largely duplicative to the ones you’ve already taken. As with most series of courses, he requires that you take his classes in order. That’s fine, and I understand why he and others do that, but if you’re going to start over in a newbie class and work your way through a progression you may want to pick a series that has more classes and topics to “unlock.”

For someone who wants to take 3-4 one-day classes and call that good, maybe occasionally taking the “advanced” class as a refresher once in a while, I think he’s good. If you’ve already taken several classes somewhere else and are looking for more, he’s probably not what you’re looking for.