Colt Revolvers?

[chilly_bill]

I'm attempting to educate myself about small Colt revolvers in both .38 and .357 calibers. I've only felt a couple of them over the years, but I was impressed. I'm putting my S&W .357 Mountain Lite up for sale or trade in hopes of replacing it with a smaller heavier piece, preferably a Colt. Question is, what should I be looking for in these weapons? I liked the .38 "Detective", and the snub nose "Python". What should I be looking for? Which models were best and why? Were any particular years better? Anyone have one of the small Pythons, I'm trying to get an idea of the size in reference to my current .357.
I am not looking for a collector piece. I love to shoot, and while it would be lovingly cared for, it would be getting used regularly as well.
Thanks for your opinions as well as knowledge (no mater how far apart they may be)

[Miltiades]

Recommendation

Short barrel Colt Pythons are quite rare, and very expensive when you find them - probably in the $1200 to $1500 range at least. Since you can't shop for one outside CA because you can't import an off list gun, you'd be confined to finding one inside the state. You could look for years for one.

A short barrel Colt Detective Special .38 is much more common, and I have seen a few of them sell on this board in the last year or two. There are many more Detective Specials in circulation than Pythons, so your odds of getting one, perhaps in the $500 + range, are pretty good. That is what I would do for a first Colt revolver. In fact that is what I did - first bought the Detective Special in 1993, then the Python (long barrel) in 1999.

[chilly_bill]

Other than the obvious caliber variance, what differences are there between the two revolvers?

[BillCA]

Some information on common Colt models:

Python: Colt's top-of-the-line revolver. Hand fitted, precision timed, uber-accurate. The finish lavished on the Python is second to none, usually a deep, polished blue. Their Royal Blue finish always looked like it was dripping wet. In terms of frame-size, it's similar to the S&W L-Frame (686) - larger than the K-frame and smaller than the N-Frame. Colt made some Stainless Pythons in the 80's, including a high-polish "Ultimate" Brite stainless model. Mfr 1955-1996.

King Cobra: (.357) Intended as the Trooper's replacement and featuring an improved, easier to manufacture action, the King Cobra arrived just as police were transitioning to autos. It featured a full-lug barrel similar to the Python (closer to the GP101) and a solid rib barrel (a tribute to the Trooper), adjustable sights and a round butt grip with neoprene grips. Barrels were between 2-1/2 to 8". A stainless version was also offered after the first year production. 1986-1992

Trooper Mk V: (.357) The Mk V version of the Trooper featured a vent rib and improvements to the internal lockwork to prevent hot-gun lockups. Available in 4, 6 and 8" versions (8" scarce). 1982-1986

Trooper MK III: (.357) The Trooper was intended as a premium police revolver with adjustable sights instead of fixed sights. The lockwork was redesigned to reduce hand-fitting. Trooper barrels had a shrouded extractor rod in a half-lug (like S&W) under the barrel which was topped with a solid thick rib. Made in 4, 6 and 8" barrels (8" scarce). Available in .22LR, .22Mag, .357 and .38. Mfr. 1969-1983.

Lawman: (.357) Colt's fixed-sight .357 magnum intended for the LE market. Similar frame to the Trooper. Fixed sights, unshrouded extractor rod, round barrel. The Lawman Mk V added a shrouded extractor on the 2" barrel and an improved action on all models. Mfr 1969-85.

Diamondback: (.38) The Diamondback was Colt's premium .38 Special revolver. It was modeled after the Python with a full underlug and vent rib. These were available in .22LR and .38 Special. Mfr. 1966-1986.

Detective Special: (.38) Built on the "D" frame, the DS is a 2" barreled six-shot revolver with fixed sights. Early models had an exposed extractor rod. This changed to a shrouded rod in the Third Issue. A 3" barrel was offered but is considered scarce. Arguably the best .38 model for CCW ever made due to it's small size and six shots. Mfr. 1947-1986.

Cobra: (.38) This is the lightweight alloy version of the Detective Special. Early models were available in .22, .32 Long and .38 New Police (.38 S&W) with a 2, 3, or 4" barrel on a square butt frame. Mfr 1950-1981

Agent: (.38) This lightweight revolver is similar to the Cobra except for the shorter grip frame. Mfr 1955-1986.

Police Positive Special: (.38) This is a steel framed .38 special with fixed sights built on the "D" frame. Similar to the Detective special except with a 4", 5" or 6" barrel. Here's a photo of a Fourth Issue wearing Detective Special grips. Mfr 1947-1978/1994-1995.


Viper: (.38) The Viper is a lightweight alloy framed version of the Police Positive Special, made only in 1977. Due to only one year of production, prices are usually high.

Anaconda: Built on a larger frame than the Python, it looks like a stainless Python on steroids to fire .44 Magnum or .45 Colt. Mfr 1990-1999. A few hundred made 2002-2003.

Other models exist that aren't mentioned, including the Magnum Carry (a .357 stainless Detective Special), and older models like the Official Police, Officer's Model, etc.

[Slabsides]

Colt Anaconda

[JTROKS]

Wow! This should be a sticky!

[chilly_bill]

Wow, this is great. Thanks so much.
Comparing the Detective Special to a 2.5" barrel Python, is there a major difference in size? Quality/feel/accuracy?

[BillCA]

Between the Dick Special and Python, the size difference is considerable. The small "D" frame is a tad larger than the S&W J-Frame. Colt's "I" frame Python is closer to the S&W L-Frame (Model 686). A 2.5" Python is probably around 16oz heavier than the Det. Special.

Both were quality guns. The feel of the actions are different. The Python's action was hand-tuned at the factory. The Detective Specials were less finely tuned but still very good, typically much better than today's S&W J-frames.

As a side note....
If you compare a used S&W revolver to a Colt, most S&W's will display a turn-line around the cylinder where the cylinder bolt drags between the bolt notches. This is by design and typical of S&Ws. The Colt, however, retracts the bolt and it does not contact the cylinder again until the cylinder turns far enough that it will drop into the feed-groove to the notch. A Colt showing wear outside that groove is excessively worn and out of time.

The S&W action is much easier to service and maintain. And the trigger doesn't "stack up" like the Colt. It is also a bit more robust than the Colt action. Colts were built to tighter tolerances and their barrels were precise. It was not unusual in the 70's to see competitors using a "Smolt" - a S&W frame with a Python or Diamondback barrel custom fitted for accuracy.

[chilly_bill]

BillCA, thank you so much for your input. I can get carried away seeking the finest items available. (I'm spoiled by my first gun, a Valtro 1911. Everything else I've felt left me a bit disappointed except the Colt .38 I felt a year ago or so) You mentioned that the Python was hand-tuned at the factory. Would it be reasonable to have a DS tuned by a reputable gunsmith now? Are they already sweet enough as is? Is there anyone out there selling a DS?
Still, I'd love a snubby Python. How sweet would that be?

[dfletcher]

I think the Colt New Service is worth mentioning. Larger frame than the Python and offered in a very wide variety of calibers from 38 Special & 357 Magnum, to 44 Special and 45 Colt, ACP and 44-40. Barrel lengths from 4" to 7 1/2 and target versions also.

[BillCA]

Here's my take on using Colts as a carry gun or a primary shooter - don't.

Not that they aren't a great gun, accurate or reliable. They are. It's just that they're getting to be too expensive to use and carry.

The Colt revolver actions - both SA and DA - put the wear on small parts. In Colt's heydays, as these parts wore down, gunsmiths would replace them. Part of this wear is due to the precision timing of a Colt revolver. It puts more stress on the innards.

If you squeeze a DA S&W the cylinder locks up well before the hammer reaches its full stroke. It's easy to manipulate the gun so the cylinder locks and the hammer is "almost ready" to fall. Not so the Colt. It's action is so precise that the cylinder does not lock up until the hammer is within about 1/32 of an inch from falling. If you squeeze slowly, you'll hear the cylinder bolt engage just a split instant before the hammer falls.

That kind of timing takes a good degree of skill and precision to make -- or fix. Sadly, many of the skilled Colt gunsmiths are retiring or retired. Colt stopped making revolvers as a product in the mid-late 90's. The last Python rolled out in 2003 (IIRC).

You can find a Detective Special, Cobra or Agent that's in excellent shape if you look in shops that buy up estate collections or specialize in classic firearms. But that revolver will cost you as much or more than a new S&W.

There are a few shops that still work on Colt actions. Fewer that I'd trust to slick up a Colt's action for carry. Between the lack of experience with Colts and the need for frequent "tune-up inspections" (The last recommendation I saw from Colt was every 5,000 rounds) and the lack of fresh replacement parts, any Colt wheelgun I own is primarily a safe queen.