Glock 19 - purposeful training

[W.R.Buchanan]

Practice makes perfect. G19 is an accurate pistol. Lot of dry fires practice. Shoot slow and focus on fundamentals.

Ryan: I like the way you shot the hostage ! that's some good shootin'!

Randy

[zfields]

If your drawing from holster, firing a controlled pair or non-standard response grouping (3-4 rounds) at speed, then reholstering, and repeating. Like you would in a fire fight. You'll quickly find that those DA/SA handguns are infact not easier to shoot. They probably feel more comfy. But the DA/SA trigger is a very hard one to master. You find you're mashing the first trigger pull because it is so long and hard, then you over do it on the drasticaly lighter follow up pull. As you keep doing that you get frustrated and it only gets worse. You can't cheat and skip the DA pull when training realistically...so you start loving them less and less.

This what makes a Glock a Glock. The trigger pull is the same start to finish. The reset is VERY short so follow up shots are very quick. There is no thumb safety or decocker to trip you up. The safety is built into the trigger. This also makes it faster.

When training at speed in realistic conditions, the Glock is by far the easiest gun to master out there. Functionality is where it shines. It might not be as comfy as some other guns. But it is a gun not a pair of shoes. It only need not be comfortable enough that it doesn't hurt. Firefights don't last that long.

That said, I hear you that the finger grooves kinda suck. They were a bad idea. A response to people putting Hogue grip sleeves on their Glocks. What Glock didnt realize was that it was the rubber people liked. Not the grooves. Was long a complaint of mine. On the 17 they fit my hand well. On other models not so much. Ironically, my factory Glock 17 is a Gen 2...no grooves. While my Glock 26 is Gen 3, so grooves. But you get used to them. I honestly don't notice them any more.

As far as the texture goes...did you get an RTF model? Compared to most my polymer guns are pretty easy on the hands with regards to texture. Except for the RTF model, so I avoided it. They made those for SWAT guys and police who have to wear gloves. Too smooth a gun gets slippery when wearing gloves. But thanks to the chemicals in flash bangs, and people needing to search people and luggage and the like need to wear gloves to protect their hands.

This hits it pretty well.

Most people won't spend the time necessary to get good with a DA/SA trigger for defensive shooting.

I'm more of an M&P guy, but a g19 is about the perfect gun for most people. Personally, I like the gen 4 and RTF frames a lot more, the gen 3 is waay to slippery for me. I'm probably also the only guy out there than the finger grooves line up well with.

[AFTII]

There is no thumb safety or decocker to trip you up. The safety is built into the trigger. This also makes it faster.

Faster than what? For whom? You've obviously never trained with a 1911 or you wouldn't make such absurd statements.

[3ngineer]

@W.R.Buchanan & @tacticalcity, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

@AFTII, relax. He's saying there's less variables/things to manipulate when using a Glock. Like he says, less things to "trip you up".

[Packy14]

OK; Lots of advice here, some of it actually will help you.

But this little tidbit will help you even more.

You need to go to a real live shooting school. Front Sight, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Sig Academy, or some other place that will teach you how to shoot a pistol from a beginning standpoint. IE: Teach you the proper Fundamentals.

You appear to be an Engineer so this concept shouldn't be new to you.

Note I didn't say your local guy. These big outfits run literally thousands of new students thru their facilities every year and they can literally teach just about anybody. There are exceptions!

All the big outfits teach essentially the exact same things because they all teach the "Basic Cooper Doctrine" which is essentially the "Standardized Techniques of Pistol Shooting."

You can practice on your own until the cows come home and never really get it until you get taught the fundamentals of Pistol Shooting. Nobody is born knowing this stuff.

A Glock 17/19 is one of the, if not "the",,, easiest guns to learn pistol craft with there is.

Only three things you can do to a Glock, 1. insert mag,2. rack slide, 3. pull trigger.

This allows you the shooter to concentrate on other things like Sight Alignment, Sight Picture and Trigger Control which are what you need to do after you know how to run the gun.

You complained about it grinding on your hand, and I too have experienced this with just about every gun I have owned in the last 20 years.. So you take a piece of 400 grit sandpaper and wrap it around a 3/4" dowell and also use a fine emery board and work the high spots and sharp edges on the grip until they don't gouge you as much. I do this to all my guns (deburr and dehorn them) because you can't concentrate on shooting if the gun is grinding your flesh into a bloody mess.

These guns are injection moulded Plastic and there will be "flash" around the parting lines of the mould and all the little "features" will be sharp until they wear down. You can accelerate that wear in by judicious use of sand paper and an Exacto Knife.

Sit in front of the TV and handle the gun alot to find all the little high spots and then go after them SLOWLY!!! So you don't make a mess out of your gun! This should take several nights to get where you need it. Also handling the gun alot will help you acclimate to it so it feels like it should be in your hand. IE get used to it.

Next Trim the Trigger Safety back until it is flush with the front face of the trigger when it is fully depressed. This will eliminate the big groove you get in your trigger finger when shooting the gun.

I call this "personalizing your gun"

Then you need to shoot the gun alot to build up some calluses.

In a 4 Day Defensive Pistol Class at Front Sight (frontsight.com) you will fire your gun about 4-500 times plus some dry firing. You will come away from that class being able to draw the gun from a holster and accurately fire two shots in less than 2 seconds. You will also be able to clear malfunctions effectively and be able to run the gun without thinking about it.

It doesn't matter if you know which end of the gun the bullets come out of, they will teach you!

If you are serious about learning this discipline, doing this will get you there faster than any other method I know of.

YMMV

Randy

My G23 which is the same gun as your G19! Just a bigger hole in the end.

None of those places will teach you much.

[tacticalcity]

OK; Lots of advice here, some of it actually
You need to go to a real live shooting school. Front Sight, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Sig Academy, or some other place that will teach you how to shoot a pistol from a beginning standpoint. IE: Teach you the proper Fundamentals.

This was the single most helfpul thing I did to become proficient. Made huge leaps in ability seeking out professional training. The level of training at those major schools far exceeds that which I received in the military. Each trip to said schools resulting in a huge leap in ability.

[Stumpfenhammer]

I second the shooting school recommendation...but...if you are the type of person who obsesses over details and can stick to a self-imposed training plan...you can teach yourself to be a very competent shooter, possibly to exceed the (marksmanship) results you will get from at least one of the schools mentioned.

Start by watching and re-watching every Bob Vogel and Max Michel how-to video on youtube to really dig into grip, sight picture, sight alignment, sight picture, stance and follow through. Then do the same with vids from Kyle Defoor, Frank Proctor and Ron Avery. Then get a timer and dry-fire books from Ben Stoeger and Steve Anderson. Then discipline yourself to do 10 dry-fire repetitions for every live round expended....or 10-15 minutes dry fire every day. Then join the Richmond Rod & Gun club because they bring top tier instructors in on a regular basis.

Regarding the G19: After 3,000-5,000 live rounds and 30,000-50,000 dry-fires...you'll be just as comfortable with it as any other pistol.

[divert_fuse]

I like my G17 a lot, but I strongly agree with the idea of focusing on whatever fits you best to start out with, and branching out into less comfortable weapons once you get good.

I'm not a very experienced shooter, but I'm a pretty experienced martial artist, and if there's one thing that stands out when trying to teach beginners is they can't feel the difference between a good punch and a bad punch. You can't fix this by telling them to practice a more difficult technique. That'll just make it harder for everyone. You have to keep fixing their simpler techniques until they do it right by feel, whereupon they can transfer this understanding of the difference between good and bad feels to harder moves.

The caveat is of course that you have to know that you are actually shooting your 1911 or whatever with better fundamentals than you G19. You might not be. This is where professional instruction might be valuable.

[Mr.Caketown]

OP I am here to echo the advice of others. While Glock platforms are solid platforms , they may not be for everyone. If you repeatedly have issues with it and over time you still cant adjust to it , then there is no shame in seeking a new platform. You are in control of a tool , that you are trusting your life to , that should feel like an extension of your arm.

P.S Running with a weighted vest is a bad comparison. Destroys your joints and L spine via joint/spinal compression and/or poor center of gravity.

[Saym14]

if your shoes don't fit do you train more in them? no get the right size. If you cant see right out of your glasses to you just squint more? no get the prescription fixed.
so the glock doesnt fit you, trade it in for another gun

[tanks]

...
When training at speed in realistic conditions, the Glock is by far the easiest gun to master out there. Functionality is where it shines. It might not be as comfy as some other guns. But it is a gun not a pair of shoes. It only need not be comfortable enough that it doesn't hurt. Firefights don't last that long. ...

I disagree with this. While a firefight might not last long, practice sessions do. If a gun is not comfortable enough to practice for extended periods of time then people are not going to practice with it.

[Stumpfenhammer]

I disagree with this. While a firefight might not last long, practice sessions do. If a gun is not comfortable enough to practice for extended periods of time then people are not going to practice with it.

Yet many of us do. I went from 1911's to HK to Glocks and the only one that felt "natural" when I picked it up was the 1911.

As I mentioned in a previous reply" "Regarding the G19 (or any pistol): After 3,000-5,000 rounds and 30,000-50,000 dry-fires...you'll be just as comfortable with it as any other pistol."

But if you know you are not the guy to put in the reps, then yes, just get what feels best to you.

[Stumpfenhammer]

if your shoes don't fit do you train more in them? no get the right size. If you cant see right out of your glasses to you just squint more? no get the prescription fixed.
so the glock doesnt fit you, trade it in for another gun

A better analogy than shoes would be backpacks. No matter how well a backpack fits you, initially it's going to be uncomfortable with a load in it. Yes you can tweak it here and there, but the fact remains that you aren't used to carrying a pack full of weight. Day One of your trip you hate that backpack, but by Day Five and 70 miles later, the backpack is way down the list of what you are thinking about, and you may even come to think of it as a great pack.

After 3,000-5,000 live rounds and 30,000-50,000 dry-fires with any given pistol...you'll be just as comfortable with it as any other pistol.

The Glock does not have perfect ergos (the 1911 gets my vote for that) but as an all around combat pistol system solid arguments could be made that it is the best, or certainly good enough for any professional (there are other good/great pistols out there: CZ, Sig, HK, Archon, S&W, but as an overall "system" (parts compatibility, parts availability, reliability, simplicity) it is a leader.

It all depends what you want and how you train. If you want a plinker or don't plan to get serious about training, then whatever fits your hand best and makes you happy is probably the better choice.

[P5Ret]

Yet many of us do. I went from 1911's to HK to Glocks and the only one that felt "natural" when I picked it up was the 1911.

As I mentioned in a previous reply" "Regarding the G19 (or any pistol): After 3,000-5,000 rounds and 30,000-50,000 dry-fires...you'll be just as comfortable with it as any other pistol."

But if you know you are not the guy to put in the reps, then yes, just get what feels best to you.

Huge difference between being comfortable with a gun, and having the gun be comfortable to shoot. If the grip doesn't fit or doesn't feel right no matter how comfortable you are with the gun it still doesn't fit. For example many people including myself are completely comfortable with .357 mag J frames, but I've never met anyone who thinks that gun is comfortable to shoot with full load magnums.

[tanks]

Yet many of us do. I went from 1911's to HK to Glocks and the only one that felt "natural" when I picked it up was the 1911.

As I mentioned in a previous reply" "Regarding the G19 (or any pistol): After 3,000-5,000 rounds and 30,000-50,000 dry-fires...you'll be just as comfortable with it as any other pistol."

But if you know you are not the guy to put in the reps, then yes, just get what feels best to you.

The point is with as many choices available today, even in CA, one does not need to punish oneself in trying to get comfortable with a gun that does not fit.