1911 extractor tension ... the same regardless of caliber?

[Lead Waster]

Hi guys, I thought I'd splurge and get the Weigand extractor gauge and the adjusting tool. Yes, I know I could have made a gauge from an empty case, a drill and some fishing line. And yes, I know I can bend an extractor using the extractor channel and some slight elbow grease. What can I say, I'm a tool junkie.

Anyway... there are two gauges that cover .45, 10mm, 9mm, 38 (I think).
I have 1911s/2011s in 9, .40 and .45.

I will NOT adjust the guns that are working fine, though I might use the gauge and just record the reading so that I know the tension (as measured by the tool) that works OK.

I'm wondering... should the extractor tensions basically be the same REGARDLESS of caliber? Weigand recommends 25-28 oz AS MEASURED BY HIS GUAGES. That would seem to indicate that all extractors use the same range of tension regardless of caliber.

Does this make sense that it's universal(ish)?

Thanks!

PS. I'm trying to solve some ejection issues that I won't rehash, as there was a thread a year ago about it, and some really good CGners have helped me offline to help diagnose...but the one thing I couldn't really answer was if the extractor tension was OK, and I don't have enough experience to tell just using the jiggle-the-case test.

[redcliff]

I'd suggest using the instructions and see what happens. Too much tension=failure to feed, too little tension=failure to extract.

The jiggle test was designed for .45acp cartridges, the lighter 9mm cartridges don't correlate perfectly. It doesn't take as much tension to hold the lighter weight 9mm rounds against the breach face under light shaking and to get a release under vigorous shaking but my experience has been you often have to go with a bit more tension on the 9mm's for proper extraction. So as a hypothetical, using the jiggle test you may be setting a .45acp to 26 ounces but a 9mm to only 20 ounces which isn't quite enough; therefore I think the tension on your extractor gauge should be set the same for the different calibers. I'd be interested to see what works for you.

[ARDude]

I tried adjusting my old extractor. But in my case it wasn't that it needed adjusting. The claw was just worn out. So I just replaced it with a Wilson Combat Bullet Proof extractor.

[JTROKS]

Be advised that cases from different manufacturers vary slightly in rim diameter, in some cases (no pun) they vary from lot to lot.

[MosinVirus]

Follow the instructions. It does make sense that the pressure needed to slip the gauge out is the same. After all, the case needs to be held just enough to not be dropped prematurely and not firm enough that it can't really get under the claw when feeding. This would be regardless of caliber in most cases.

Remember though that extractor shape and pad just under the claw (that limits how far onto the breech face the claw gets) are also important. I guess I am trying to say that extractor tension is just one aspect.

[Lead Waster]

Thanks guys! The instructions said 25-28 oz. It didn't specify caliber, which is what puzzled me (though the gauges have 4 different sizes, and although one says 10mm, I'll assume that .40 is the same rim size).

I'll record the current extractor tensions, of course.

MV, I did some reading into the extractor claw shapes, and where it sits, etc, etc.

I mean, Good Lord, 1911s are princesses ...

[stormvet]

Lead I would set your problem child extractor at the recommended 25-28 oz no matter the caliber and adjust from there. You’ll know if it needs a little more or less after shooting it.

I own a set of those gauges and the adjustment tool, but all my 1911s are .45. I had one gun I just could not get the tension right using the other methods of adjustment. First time I used the tool and guages, that problem extractor was a problem no more. So for me it was worth the cost, by the way I only have a electronic trigger guage. So I set my tension at 1lb 10oz and that worked for me.

[G. Freeman]

The 9mm will require a lot more tension.

[Lead Waster]

I tested the tension on two .45 1911s and one 9mm 1911.

I found one .45 slightly low, which is the one that has been giving me ejection problems.
The other was VERY low, but it never gave me trouble before.

Now get this ... the 9mm extractor ... gave zero reading because It wouldn't even hold an empty case up against the breech face! Seriously! I thought ... oh it has no tension at all, but I couldn't even get it out of the extractor channel because it was so bent! Then I thought ... is this extractor just ... too long? Because it exerts NOT force on the gauge or the empty case. It looks like the hook is just too far from the face!

HOwever ... this gun does NOT have any ejection problems! I guess that the hook WILL extract the case from the chamber since it's going to contact the rim as the slide moves back anyway, and when a round is chambered, the breech face manages to shove the round into the chamber without the extractor needing to hold it to the breech face.

I did not attempt to change the 9mm extractor (partly because it wouldn't leave) because it seems to work in whatever weird state it's in already.

That seems weird to me ... is this by design? (The long extractor that does not hold the 9mm case against the breech face) or what's going on?

[MosinVirus]

Sounds like your 9mm extractor is not "traditionally" fitted, but because it can still grab the rim of the case when needed it works. If it ain't broke...

[redcliff]

I tested the tension on two .45 1911s and one 9mm 1911.

I found one .45 slightly low, which is the one that has been giving me ejection problems.
The other was VERY low, but it never gave me trouble before.

Now get this ... the 9mm extractor ... gave zero reading because It wouldn't even hold an empty case up against the breech face! Seriously! I thought ... oh it has no tension at all, but I couldn't even get it out of the extractor channel because it was so bent! Then I thought ... is this extractor just ... too long? Because it exerts NOT force on the gauge or the empty case. It looks like the hook is just too far from the face!

HOwever ... this gun does NOT have any ejection problems! I guess that the hook WILL extract the case from the chamber since it's going to contact the rim as the slide moves back anyway, and when a round is chambered, the breech face manages to shove the round into the chamber without the extractor needing to hold it to the breech face.

I did not attempt to change the 9mm extractor (partly because it wouldn't leave) because it seems to work in whatever weird state it's in already.

That seems weird to me ... is this by design? (The long extractor that does not hold the 9mm case against the breech face) or what's going on?

Interesting result on the 9m To me it would indicate the extractor isn't fitted properly but if it works....

Next time you take it (really any of your 1911's) to the range load it from the magazine, remove the magazine and fire it. Rinse and repeat through two magazines, one magazine two handed and one magazine one handed, looking for proper ejection out the ejection port (and not falling out the mag well or jamming the slide). That is basically the gold stand for full and proper extractor performance on a 1911. When the magazine is in the pistol it helps support the case during extraction and can help cover up a less than ideal extractor fit and tension.