Is an AR Pistol really a Pistol?

[HKVP9]

I took my AR Pistol out to the range today, the RO didn't want me shooting it at the Rifle range so he let me use it at the Pistol range, (real cool dude btw) I wasn't allowed to shoulder the brace but they let me cheekweld it, at least they let me shoot my AR Pistol, most ranges don't.

Ceasefire happens, I clear my AR Pistol, lock the bolt to the rear and step behind the yellow line. This foreign guy with a heavy accent walks over and points at my AR Pistol, genuinely thinking it's a pistol, and he asks, "What kinda pistol is that?" I got caught off guard and tried to explain to him that it isn't really a pistol but because it has a "brace" on it, that makes my AR a pistol, if it had a "stock" on it, it would be a rifle.

Then I saw the look on his face that said "who in the mother of god's green earth made that bullsh*t up?" At this point, I started cracking up because it didn't make any sense to me either and I had no idea how to explain it to him. Anyways, I told him don't try to understand it and offered to let him shoot it and he accepted. He picks up my AR Pistol and shoulders it so I quickly stop him and explain to him how he can only use a cheekweld, at this point I probably have him lost like a child at walmart but he ends up emptying a magazine downrange and turns around with a huge smile on his face.

Anyways thought I'd share my little range trip with you guys, on to my question, Is an AR Pistol really a pistol?

[Cokebottle]

I got caught off guard and tried to explain to him that it isn't really a pistol but because it has a "brace" on it, that makes my AR a pistol, if it had a "stock" on it, it would be a rifle.

Wrong answer, and a wrong answer that could potentially get you into hot water for having an SBR.

It *is* a pistol in California and has never been anything OTHER than a pistol.
If it is a "rifle" and the barrel is less than 16", then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.
If the receiver has ever been a rifle, then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.

The brace is just that... it is a brace. It is not a stock. A stock makes it a rifle, and then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.

These are MAJOR felonies. Do not even joke about them.

[sbo80]

Of course it is. At least you didn't get "you can't bring that here, all AR pistols are assault weapons now" that I've heard. It's just words on paper that define it as a pistol. It either fits the definition or it doesn't, I wouldn't overly concern yourself with it. It's all made up anyway. Is my grandfather's .30-30/20 gauge over/under a rifle or shotgun? Is an Uzi a rifle just because you weld an extension to the barrel? It doesn't really matter what it's called at the end of the day.

[HKVP9]

It *is* a pistol in California and has never been anything OTHER than a pistol.

Agreed, I never said it was anything other than a pistol.

If it is a "rifle" and the barrel is less than 16", then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.
If the receiver has ever been a rifle, then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.

Agreed

The brace is just that... it is a brace. It is not a stock. A stock makes it a rifle, and then you are in possession of an unlicensed SBR. That is illegal in California AND Federally.

These are MAJOR felonies. Do not even joke about them.

"it isn't really a pistol but because it has a "brace" on it, that makes my AR a pistol, if it had a "stock" on it, it would be a rifle." Didn't I say pretty much the same thing you did but in different words? And for the joking part I wasn't joking around, I was dead serious but in this instance, it was pretty funny how he reacted to what I told him.

[HKVP9]

Of course it is. At least you didn't get "you can't bring that here, all AR pistols are assault weapons now" that I've heard.

Damn, well it does make sense from a business standpoint to turn away AR Pistols due to legality issues but definitely sucks for us responsible gun owners.

It's just words on paper that define it as a pistol. It either fits the definition or it doesn't, I wouldn't overly concern yourself with it. It's all made up anyway. Is my grandfather's .30-30/20 gauge over/under a rifle or shotgun? Is an Uzi a rifle just because you weld an extension to the barrel? It doesn't really matter what it's called at the end of the day.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was getting at, I just had no idea how to explain to a newbie that it isn't like a regular handgun you normally see at the pistol range.

[IVC]

"it isn't really a pistol but because it has a "brace" on it, that makes my AR a pistol, if it had a "stock" on it, it would be a rifle." Didn't I say pretty much the same thing you did but in different words?

Not the same thing.

First, it's a pistol because the lower was DROS-ed as pistol and because it doesn't have (and never has had) a stock installed. It has nothing to do with the brace. If anything, the legal status of the brace is quite unclear. We have some reason to believe that ATF doesn't care, but we also have reasons to believe that the CA DOJ does.

Second, the "it's not really a pistol" is not correct because it IS a pistol. We are talking about legal definitions here. You might say "it doesn't look like a pistol" or something along those lines, but it IS a pistol.

[Endless]

Not the same thing.

First, it's a pistol because the lower was DROS-ed as pistol and because it doesn't have (and never has had) a stock installed. It has nothing to do with the brace. If anything, the legal status of the brace is quite unclear. We have some reason to believe that ATF doesn't care, but we also have reasons to believe that the CA DOJ does.

Second, the "it's not really a pistol" is not correct because it IS a pistol. We are talking about legal definitions here. You might say "it doesn't look like a pistol" or something along those lines, but it IS a pistol.

Your first part is not entirely correct either.

The BATF made it perfectly clear with their opinion letter released in 2017. Federally the SB braces are legal as per a letter that was sent out. We have all seen it and it’s known. YouTube it.

I have yet to see someone with a SB brace on an AR pistol in any state go to prison for 10+ years and I have never seen a $10,000-$500,000 fine either. I haven’t seen anyone go to prison for 10+ years for shouldering a SB brace federally or by a state either. Have you? If you have, please link below for all of us to see and I will post it up on Northeastfirearms.

I am very interested to see why ANY state would put you in prison longer than a rape offense for shouldering an SB brace on an AR pistol out at the desert on private land.

Your second part is correct.

[edgerly779]

Some fud on here. With fixed mag it is not assault weapon and op should have said ar pistol instead of anything else. I am getting my 80% ers engraved next week.

[Quiet]

The BATF made it perfectly clear with their opinion letter released in 2017. Federally the SB braces are legal as per a letter that was sent out. We have all seen it and it’s known. YouTube it.

BATFE arm stablizing brace letter (03-21-2017)

Per that BATFE letter...

1. An arm stablizing brace by itself is legal.

2. Installing an arm stablizing brace on a Title 1 Handgun with the intent to use it as intended, does not change the classification of the firearm.

3. Using the arm stablizing brace as intended (strapped/brace to forearm of the trigger hand), does not change the classification of the firearm.

4. Using the arm stablizing brace in an alternative non-intended method that causes incidental or sporadic contact with the shoulder, does not change the classification of the firearm.

5. Installing an arm stablizing brace on a Title 1 Handgun with the intent to use it as a shoulder stock, does change the classification of the firearm to a Title 2 SBR.

6. Modifying the arm stablizing brace and/or the Title 1 Handgun in order to make it easier to shoulder, does change the classification of the firearm to a Title 2 SBR.


None of the above is applicable to CA SBR/SBS laws.

[Quiet]

Anyways thought I'd share my little range trip with you guys, on to my question, Is an AR Pistol really a pistol?

"it isn't really a pistol but because it has a "brace" on it, that makes my AR a pistol, if it had a "stock" on it, it would be a rifle." Didn't I say pretty much the same thing you did but in different words? And for the joking part I wasn't joking around, I was dead serious but in this instance, it was pretty funny how he reacted to what I told him.

Under CA laws...

A firearm with a less than 16" barrel is a "handgun". [PC 16640(a)]

A "handgun" can also be classified as a SBR/SBS, if it meets any of those definitions. [PC 16640(b)]

A firearm with a rifled barrel that is made/remade to be fired from the shoulder is a "rifle". [PC 17090]

A "rifle" with a less than 16" barrel length is a SBR. [PC 17170(a)]
A "rifle" with a less than 26" overall length is a SBR. [PC 17170(b)]


The arm stablizing brace is a gray area, in that a CA LEO/ADA can determine that installing it on a "handgun" makes it a SBR/SBS, because installation of that part could be considered "redesigning or remaking" it to be fired from the shoulder.

[heidad01]

By legal definition, it is a pistol. With or without a brace.

In reality, an AR Pistol is just an odd looking contraption with virtually no use except for making a very loud bang. It is primarily a mall ninja weapon and tacticool looking.

[Jimi Jah]

I'm trying to figure out the logic to allow shooting the AR pistol only on the pistol range, it does shoot a rifle bullet.

100 yards is where I want to shoot mine from.

[Scratch705]

I'm trying to figure out the logic to allow shooting the AR pistol only on the pistol range, it does shoot a rifle bullet.

100 yards is where I want to shoot mine from.

the RO was the one that made OP goto the pistol side. which is a departure from other stories i heard where the RO made these "pistols" goto the rifle side due to the caliber.

these rifle based "pistols" were only made to get around the stupid SBR laws of USA. and these braces are a continuation of it. only goes to show how stupid some of the gun laws are that has no rationale and are only banning/restricting things by "looks"

[IVC]

I'm trying to figure out the logic to allow shooting the AR pistol only on the pistol range, it does shoot a rifle bullet.

Ranges have some special rules for "unusual firearms." As far as I know, Iron Sights in Oceanside will send to the rifle range anyone with a super-magnum revolver. It prevents a S&W 500 from clearing their pistol range and keeps customers happy...

[onelonehorseman]

I'm trying to figure out the logic to allow shooting the AR pistol only on the pistol range, it does shoot a rifle bullet.

100 yards is where I want to shoot mine from.

Exactly. The RO's at my indoor range don't allow anything that shoots rifle ammunition (like 5.56 NATO or 7.62 x 39), even be it a pistol.

From my experience, it's typically the ammunition type that determines which range you use. I do shoot my M1 Carbine at my indoor range because they consider 30 carbine to be closer to a pistol cartridge.

Their range, their rules.