Gun Purchase DELAYED!?

[xxanonhackerxx]

I started the DROS process on 20 Jan 2018 and i got delayed 2 days before my pickup date. CA DOJ sent me a very generic letter and I have yet to get the reason why I am getting delayed. I have no criminal history, i have been live scanned by the state 5 times and all have come back clear. I am in thew process of getting honorably discharged from the military. What should I do? Who should I call.

[MrBlazito]

Who is the FFL? If it's a mom and pops shop, see what their policy is in regards releasing the firearm to you if the delay goes into "undetermined" status. If it's a chain store like Turners, then you're SOL.

[SkyHawk]

All you can do is wait, and in the mean time find out what your FFL policy is if the DROS goes 30 days and flips to 'undetermined'.

[xxanonhackerxx]

It's Sportsman's they will not release it. I still have 7 days and I also got live scanned for firearms purchase.

[81turbota]

Why did you get livescanned for the purchase?

[dbdataplus]

At 31 days your application leaves the analyst's work queue and is automatically status "undertermined" -- usually a typo in the records or someone using your SSN shows up and the analyst sends away for more detail. If the data shows in the 30 day window you're golden ... but if it shows up at day 31 the application has been removed from his work queue and can't be re-opened.

If the FFL is your dealer he gets to give you a full refund including your DROS fees - even if you signed a waiver - or else you have a cause of action against him.

If your FFL is just the FFL in a third party transaction another section of the code compels him to release the firearm unless you are denied. Some FFL's don't see it that way and many fancy themselves as lawyers, but that is the law.

In my case I had an undetermined and the FFL refused to release (it was a third party transaction where the seller was long gone) and I file suit in Superior Court. After two years, on the eve of trial, they stipulated to every cause of action. They paid my legal fees, the fee to re-DROS the firearm and I even got my parking fees from the Superior Court building. I'd been hoping for a verdict in court -- and even have them appeal it -- because the Appelate Court is where case law is made ... but I can't go in with a defendant that agreed to all the conditions of the suit.

Lastly - as part of the prep for this suit we spent a lot of time over an ATF memo that states the FFL has "sole discretion" on releasing the firearm. First, the ATF is not the binding entity in these cases and after much communication with the ATF it turns out that phrase indemnifies the FFL. It's the ATF's promise not to second guess his decision should you show up on the news one day as a "nice guy that kept to yourself but always waved as you drove by."

[golfish]

It's Sportsman's they will not release it. I still have 7 days and I also got live scanned for firearms purchase.

I'd also like to know why you a live scan for a firearm purchase.

[SloChicken]

I think the current delay is a backlash from the gov't shutdown. I recall various gov't entities would experience delays for not crucial items.

Unless there is something on your end, that is.

[ugimports]

At 31 days your application leaves the analyst's work queue and is automatically status "undertermined" -- usually a typo in the records or someone using your SSN shows up and the analyst sends away for more detail. If the data shows in the 30 day window you're golden ... but if it shows up at day 31 the application has been removed from his work queue and can't be re-opened.

If the FFL is your dealer he gets to give you a full refund including your DROS fees - even if you signed a waiver - or else you have a cause of action against him.

If your FFL is just the FFL in a third party transaction another section of the code compels him to release the firearm unless you are denied. Some FFL's don't see it that way and many fancy themselves as lawyers, but that is the law.

In my case I had an undetermined and the FFL refused to release (it was a third party transaction where the seller was long gone) and I file suit in Superior Court. After two years, on the eve of trial, they stipulated to every cause of action. They paid my legal fees, the fee to re-DROS the firearm and I even got my parking fees from the Superior Court building. I'd been hoping for a verdict in court -- and even have them appeal it -- because the Appelate Court is where case law is made ... but I can't go in with a defendant that agreed to all the conditions of the suit.

Lastly - as part of the prep for this suit we spent a lot of time over an ATF memo that states the FFL has "sole discretion" on releasing the firearm. First, the ATF is not the binding entity in these cases and after much communication with the ATF it turns out that phrase indemnifies the FFL. It's the ATF's promise not to second guess his decision should you show up on the news one day as a "nice guy that kept to yourself but always waved as you drove by."

For the section bolded where is the PC that states this? The dealer is out the $25 regardless of the outcome. Why can't the dealer charge a restocking fee? Where in the PC does it say 100% refunds are mandatory by law? What cause of action do you have?

I'm not a lawyer, but don't see what you would be able to do.

Sure you can dispute the CC charge with your company, but if you signed up to a re-stocking fee and loss of DROS fees the CC company will side with the business.

[Wormdog]

Out of the blue I was delayed last year. I had to wait a whopping 26 long days before it was released. Kind of stressful because I never new why I got the delay. In 20 years it was a first for me.
Just hang tight

[dbdataplus]

the Uniform Commercial code & rulings

For the section bolded where is the PC that states this? The dealer is out the $25 regardless of the outcome. Why can't the dealer charge a restocking fee? Where in the PC does it say 100% refunds are mandatory by law? What cause of action do you have?

I'm not a lawyer, but don't see what you would be able to do.

Sure you can dispute the CC charge with your company, but if you signed up to a re-stocking fee and loss of DROS fees the CC company will side with the business.

Because the transaction is 100% in the control of the FFL and none to you. All he has to do is hit some keys on a keyboard, get your signature and a thumb print and had you your weapon.

Why would a dealer get to charge a restocking fee on something he chose to "return" to himself. Likewise the DROS fee is 100% in his control. You are out the fee only due to the FFL's sole decision.

In this case the FFL is using their superior position in a transaction to damage the other party.

MY definition of Irony is that sop many FFLs have a plaque of the Second Amendment on their wall and yet, in this situation, choose to infringe on your rights.

[dbdataplus]

The most typical reason

Out of the blue I was delayed last year. I had to wait a whopping 26 long days before it was released. Kind of stressful because I never new why I got the delay. In 20 years it was a first for me.
Just hang tight

The most typical reason is that records they request are not readily available. Someone gets arrested in another state and gives your SSN (or gives his own and a clerk transposes it) and someone has to verify the actual arrest record, etc.

In my case the paper records were in a wooden crate right under the crate containing the Ark of the Covenant {I hope y'all get that reference} and the custodian of records at the opposite end of the country wasn't all that keen on getting that dusty and dirty.

[onelonehorseman]

This type of thing has been discussed many times here.

The take away is to NEVER use any FFL that will not release when "undetermined".

One can have a DROS delayed, and eventually become undetermined for no fault of their own.

I hope, in your case OP, that it gets cleared up before the 30 days is up, but I know often it will not. If your FFL won't release, you're boned. . . . find another FFL that will release if undetermined and repeat.

Good luck.

[dbdataplus]

I'm not a lawyer, but don't see what you would be able to do.

As an after note Ugi -- it's refreshing to actually meet a gun dealer who doesn't consider himself a Constitutional lawyer -- congrats on that.

As a retailer you are covered not only by the California Rules and Regulations regarding the sale of firearms but you still come under the jurisdiction of the Civil Code of the State of California and the Uniform Commercial Code of the United States -- so any time the Criminal Code is not specific then other non-related laws are still in force.

[dbdataplus]

Agreed

This type of thing has been discussed many times here.

The take away is to NEVER use any FFL that will not release when "undetermined".

One can have a DROS delayed, and eventually become undetermined for no fault of their own.

I hope, in your case OP, that it gets cleared up before the 30 days is up, but I know often it will not. If your FFL won't release, you're boned. . . . find another FFL that will release if undetermined and repeat.

Good luck.

I agree 100%
If the FFL is so worried of what might happen to HIM if he releases when you are not denied -- he ought to go into some other line of work like baking cakes.