AR Pistol Contingency Plan

[80_percent_human]

I am planning to build an AR pistol with my newly created 80% lower. My understanding is that once I put rifle parts on my new lower, then it is no longer a pistol lower.

I understand that AR pistols are currently within a gray/volatile area but are still within the law, so my plan is to build an AR pistol (legally and t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ single shot t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶m̶i̶-̶a̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶h̶o̶d̶) for now. In the case of a law change or AR pistols are no longer legal, I will be able to convert my 80% pistol lower into a forever 80% rifle lower and still keep my lower.

Does this plan seem solid / does anybody else have the same plan?

[Maximus924]

there are a lot of discussions on this topic, Everything I read (years ago) said if it was FIRST made a pistol, it can remain a pistol until its made into a rifle, and then it cannot be changed back.

other things I have read (more recently) state as long as it was a PISTOL first, it can be changed to a rifle, and back to a pistol (So long as its NEVER an SBR in the process)
i.e. you have to remove the pistol barrel (or entire upper) BEFORE a stock is ever put on it.


This may be a state to state law, so I am not sure how things work here in Cali, but in any event - it should be perfectly legal to convert your AR Pistol to a rifle in the future so long as it's assembled in the correct order.

I will let someone else with further knowledge on the subject determine if it could eventually be turned BACK into a pistol ....

[Mr. Torgue]

I thought the single shot exemption was closed for semi auto pistols. Also, I believe California classifies all pistols with a magazine outside of the grip as an AW so you're really going to be in an ugly area.

[bruss01]

If the mag is fixed it is not an AW. This is the same as a Mauser Broomhandle pistol. Have to build it with a fixed mag.

[80_percent_human]

Can we please stay on topic? I want to know if converting an AR pistol to a featureless rifle is a good enough plan when **** hits the fan, assuming the AR pistol is currently built in a completely legal manner but becomes illegal after some time.

[KT_SF]

my plan is to build an AR pistol (legally and through the single shot to semi-auto method)

The window of opportunity to convert 80% AR Pistols from single-shot to semi-auto apparently already closed on 1/1/17, due to CA's home-built firearm laws defining what constitutes "manufacturing", according to previous posts by Rick and Quiet (use the search function). Some of us Vol Reg'ed our 80% AR Pistol lowers last year to document the date with CA DOJ. Furthermore, the separate window of opportunity for firearms eligible for registration as a CA Assault Weapon also closed on 12/31/16 (separate law, for those wanting to keep existing pre-2017 semi-auto AR pistols as fixed-mag under the latest AW laws). If you milled your new 80% lower in 2017, then your best bet would be to use it for a featureless or fixed-mag rifle (not AR pistol).

KT

[black_bunny]

yes you can covert to a featureless rifle if you want to. but given you have a 80% lower and assuming you havent tried to register it, it really doesnt matter what you do with it. if you register it as a rifle, you cannot turn it into a pistol. thats how the law works and like a previous poster said. to be within the law you must have a fixed magazine so you wont have an AW.

[80_percent_human]

The window of opportunity to convert 80% AR Pistols from single-shot to semi-auto apparently already closed on 1/1/17, due to CA's home-built firearm laws defining what constitutes "manufacturing", according to previous posts by Rick and Quiet (use the search function). Some of us Vol Reg'ed our 80% AR Pistol lowers last year to document the date with CA DOJ. Furthermore, the separate window of opportunity for firearms eligible for registration as a CA Assault Weapon also closed on 12/31/16 (separate law, for those wanting to keep existing pre-2017 semi-auto AR pistols as fixed-mag under the latest AW laws). If you milled your new 80% lower in 2017, then your best bet would be to use it for a featureless or fixed-mag rifle (not AR pistol).

KT

Damn, I knew I was overlooking something. Thanks.

[ScottsBad]

Can we please stay on topic? I want to know if converting an AR pistol to a featureless rifle is a good enough plan when **** hits the fan, assuming the AR pistol is currently built in a completely legal manner but becomes illegal after some time.

Your biggest mistake is talking about it.

If the S truly does HTF, it won't matter where your lower came from. In fact, you could probably put a stock on that pistol, take your BB off, and put a suppressor on. The cops will be too busy to arrest you, if there are any cops around.

LE and National Guard would likely just take your firearms away rather than try to make an arrest because they won't have time to book you, log the evidence, etc. And the Courts won't be functional anyway.

Now they could just put you in a camp, but that depends on you as a perceived threat.

If its a small skirmish like the LA Riots, I would be very careful.

[Socalmp5]

Once you go pistol and change to rifle you can't go back

[Press Check]

According to the law, once a pistol has been converted a rifle, it may not be converted back to a pistol, but who would know what you're doing within the confines of your home.

[80_percent_human]

if you register it as a rifle, you cannot turn it into a pistol. thats how the law works and like a previous poster said.

Once you go pistol and change to rifle you can't go back

According to the law, once a pistol has been converted a rifle, it may not be converted back to a pistol, but who would know what you're doing within the confines of your home.

I wasn't planning on converting it back into a pistol in the event of me converting it into a rifle.

I will be able to convert my 80% pistol lower into a forever 80% rifle lower and still keep my lower.

[Maximus924]

Once you go pistol and change to rifle you can't go back

According to the law, once a pistol has been converted a rifle, it may not be converted back to a pistol, but who would know what you're doing within the confines of your home.

Is this a state law? any sources? I remember hearing this as well, but never had a source to validate it.

If it is state-specific I would understand.


I hate to take this thread into a legal questionnaire but since information that may or may not be true is being described as fact, I figure I should throw in my 2 cents....

the US DOJ issued "ATF Ruling 2011-4" on 'Pistol to Rifle and back to Pistol'

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2011-4-pistols-configured-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download

I am not a lawyer, nor did i stay in a holday inn express last night, but I read this July 25, 2011 letter as legal acceptance to convert a legal AR Pistol to a rifle, and then back to a pistol so long as at no time a "SBR" or other NFA regulated firearm was configured.

"the term “pistol” is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27
CFR 479.11, as “a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)” (emphasis added). "
.....
"if the parts are assembled into a rifle having a barrel or barrels 16 inches in length or more, a rifle not subject to the NFA has been made.
Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or reassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length). Merely assembling and disassembling such a rifle does not result in the making of a new weapon; rather, it is the same rifle in a knockdown condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts). Likewise, because it is the same weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA has been made."

and it goes on to read " if a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length is assembled or otherwise produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle, such a weapon is a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4). Such a weapon would not be a “pistol” because the weapon was not originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile by one hand. "

I read this as:

If it STARTED LIFE as a pistol, it can go back and forth as long as it does not at any time get configured in a firearm that would be regulated by the NFA, but if it started life as a RIFLE, it must remain a rifle.

[Quiet]

Is this a state law? any sources? I remember hearing this as well, but never had a source to validate it.

If it is state-specific I would understand.

CA SBR/SBS laws does not allow the firearm to go back and forth.

Legal determination is dependent upon how it was last configured.

Under CA laws/regulations...
handgun -> rifle -> handgun = SBR (weapon made from a rifle) [PC 17170(c)]
handgun -> shotgun -> handgun = SBS (weapon made from a shotgun) [PC 17180(c)]

[Lightstrider]

Build your AR pistol with a fixed mag like the new Franklin drop in or utilize the new mag locks that require to you open up the gun to reload. Then use a blocked gas block or gas tube to make it bolt action. Keep it that way.