Kimber Eclipse II 10 mm

[dfletcher]

Under the theory "everyone needs a 10mm (I have an older Smith 610) semi auto I just bought a Kimber Eclipse II in that caliber. I like my 1911s simple, as in "no FP block" style and with the exception of a Colt Defender all mine are that way - Dan Wesson, Les Baer, Springfield, Detonics, etc. Kimber has a "Schwartz" safety system which uses the grip safety, not the trigger, to block or unblock the firing pin. For those who know the system -

Although the trigger pull on the Kimber I have is lousy I presume it's being so is separate from the safety system, it's lousy on its own, correct? By lousy I mean heavy and and alot of travel with creep. Unlike the "Colt Series 80" the Schwartz system doesn't interact with the trigger, correct? Does the presence of the system have any influence on the trigger, such as requiring greater sear engagement? Should cleaning up the trigger pull be no different on this gun than a Series 70 1911 (disassembly and reassembly are a bit different, I know).

I removed the "Series 80" parts from my Defender and replaced them with no FB block parts. Is there any reason I can not do the same with the Kimber? I'm going to learn the system first, clean up the trigger and if the pull is fine will stop there. I've no desire to fiddle with the set up if there's no influence on reliability or trigger pull.

If anyone has first hand experience with the gun and the FP block system I'd be interested to hear.

[robert101]

Sorry I don't but I just wanted to say the 10MM is a great caliber and my Dan Wesson PM7 functions fine with it. Good luck on your new Kimber Eclipse and happy shooting.

[Rickrock1]

Under the theory "everyone needs a 10mm (I have an older Smith 610) semi auto I just bought a Kimber Eclipse II in that caliber. I like my 1911s simple, as in "no FP block" style and with the exception of a Colt Defender all mine are that way - Dan Wesson, Les Baer, Springfield, Detonics, etc. Kimber has a "Schwartz" safety system which uses the grip safety, not the trigger, to block or unblock the firing pin. For those who know the system -

Although the trigger pull on the Kimber I have is lousy I presume it's being so is separate from the safety system, it's lousy on its own, correct? By lousy I mean heavy and and alot of travel with creep. Unlike the "Colt Series 80" the Schwartz system doesn't interact with the trigger, correct? Does the presence of the system have any influence on the trigger, such as requiring greater sear engagement? Should cleaning up the trigger pull be no different on this gun than a Series 70 1911 (disassembly and reassembly are a bit different, I know).

I removed the "Series 80" parts from my Defender and replaced them with no FB block parts. Is there any reason I can not do the same with the Kimber? I'm going to learn the system first, clean up the trigger and if the pull is fine will stop there. I've no desire to fiddle with the set up if there's no influence on reliability or trigger pull.

If anyone has first hand experience with the gun and the FP block system I'd be interested to hear.

610 simi or revolver ? I have a S&W 610 revolver

[MosinVirus]

You are correct, the Swartz safety is activated by the grip safety. Here is an image of that in comparison to Series 80 safety.



While I have never used a Kimber or took it apart to see the relationship of parts I can only assume that the safety mechanism could cause additional creep if the side of the sear is rubbing on the firing pin block lifter, but I highly doubt it.

I would expect that all the usual culprits of heavy and creepy trigger should be checked and adjusted.

[dfletcher]

610 simi or revolver ? I have a S&W 610 revolver

Older 610 "no dash" with 6" lugged barrel. Bought it from the San Jose Gun Exchange the day after one of their several "just reopened from ATF shut down" episodes years back. IIRC it was one of the owner's (Mike) pig guns.

[dfletcher]

You are correct, the Swartz safety is activated by the grip safety. Here is an image of that in comparison to Series 80 safety.



While I have never used a Kimber or took it apart to see the relationship of parts I can only assume that the safety mechanism could cause additional creep if the side of the sear is rubbing on the firing pin block lifter, but I highly doubt it.

I would expect that all the usual culprits of heavy and creepy trigger should be checked and adjusted.

Good diagram showing the difference between the two approaches. The Schwartz should make no difference, after all we don't use the grip safety to pull the trigger and none of those FP block parts interact with the trigger or pull. From what I've read the simplest way to eliminate the Scwartz is to use a Series 70 firing pin. That prevents the FP block (#42) from engaging a vertical edge on the FP, because there is none.

We'll see how the gun works. If it's a non-issue I'll leave it be.

Maybe I've been spoiled by the DW and Les Baers, but the Kimber trigger is just horrible. On the one hand I'm glad it's just a matter of cleaning up rather than design related, but you'd think they'd do better.

[MosinVirus]

Actually I am not surprised by that at all anymore.

I am sure you can address the trigger pull weight and smoothness by going after the usual trigger job related aspects.

[cantdance]

When I had my Kimber Target II 10mm apart I had to download a schematics when I forgot how a little doohickey for the grip safety/FB went in. I think it will fit backwards. Colts are easy to figure out.

[grhmw]

Both my Kimbers, Stainless Target II in 9mm and 45ACP both had heavy trigger pulls. I took both guns to my gunsmith and had trigger jobs done on them. Now no creep and break at 3.5lbs. So, a trigger job should fix the issue.

[dfletcher]

A "bump" and follow up question -

The trigger pull cleaned up very nicely, no issues there. I've disassembled and know how the safety works. Certainly better than the Colt Series 80 but still, I'd not want it on a "save my life" gun. It's fairly easy to hold the gun, seeming to depress the grip safety enough but not activate the safety sufficiently to release the firing pin, although the hammer will still drop.

Replacing the "locking firing pin" with a Series 70 seems the simplest approach to bypassing the FP lock. The Kimber firing pin diameter is .068, which is fairly small and I'm learning, difficult to find - most 9mm/10mm/38Super are .071 to .075. Has anyone a source for a proper fitting FP?

[MosinVirus]

A "bump" and follow up question -

The trigger pull cleaned up very nicely, no issues there. I've disassembled and know how the safety works. Certainly better than the Colt Series 80 but still, I'd not want it on a "save my life" gun. It's fairly easy to hold the gun, seeming to depress the grip safety enough but not activate the safety sufficiently to release the firing pin, although the hammer will still drop.

Replacing the "locking firing pin" with a Series 70 seems the simplest approach to bypassing the FP lock. The Kimber firing pin diameter is .068, which is fairly small and I'm learning, difficult to find - most 9mm/10mm/38Super are .071 to .075. Has anyone a source for a proper fitting FP?

While someone may have a source, I would think turning one in a power drill and sanding down the front portion would be trivial.

[dfletcher]

While someone may have a source, I would think turning one in a power drill and sanding down the front portion would be trivial.

That's my back up plan -