Spectre 80% frame Engraving

[shin_en]

with the new laws coming up regarding serializing completed 80% lowers, what is the requirement/law regarding serializing the Spectre since its a polymer frame? does it need to have a metal plate engraved and somehow permanently affixed or would just engraving into the polymer frame be sufficient?

[shin_en]

nobody?

[Chaos47]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1279180

[MrOrange]

I imagine this has already been brought up in the many threads on the subject, but it seems to me if you already have a polymer frame firearm, you're screwed.

29180 (b), (2),
(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

"shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction"

It doesn't say anything about serializing an existing frame.

[shin_en]

Yeah I already have the lower. Just didn't know how the serialization part works since it didn't have a metal plate and the ca law now requires a serial #

Additionally how does this work... ca law requires a serial number on 80% lowers however Federally you don't. In that sense would you need to follow federal law with the method of serialisation (I.e - embedded metal plate) since it's not technically required be fed to be engraved?

[boopiejones]

i thought that an 80% lower isn't a firearm when in 80% form? it's just a scary looking hunk of plastic at that point. so the "firearm is manufactured" when the last 20% is completed and the metal plate could be embedded at that time. I think.

I imagine this has already been brought up in the many threads on the subject, but it seems to me if you already have a polymer frame firearm, you're screwed.

29180 (b), (2),
(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

"shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction"

It doesn't say anything about serializing an existing frame.

[MrOrange]

i thought that an 80% lower isn't a firearm when in 80% form? it's just a scary looking hunk of plastic at that point. so the "firearm is manufactured" when the last 20% is completed and the metal plate could be embedded at that time. I think.

This is what we're talking about here:

with the new laws coming up regarding serializing completed 80% lowers, what is the requirement/law regarding serializing the Spectre since its a polymer frame? does it need to have a metal plate engraved and somehow permanently affixed or would just engraving into the polymer frame be sufficient?

although it applies to any polymer firearm, including any home-made ones, regardless of what form your starting materials were in. But yes, for the nonce, if you have untouched 80% lowers, they're still paperweights.

[edgerly779]

Read the regs 3.7 ounce stainless plate embedded in lower so ae if removed renders lower useless. No engraving on the polymer fed and state. sorry did not see this is handgun. permanent paperweight

[Dezrat]

Read the regs 3.7 ounce stainless plate embedded in lower so ae if removed renders lower useless. No engraving on the polymer

The way I'm reading the new law, it's basically saying "no legal Spectre possible".
I don't think a standard Glock frame could be incorporated with enough steel plate to amount to 3.7 oz. and remain functional. That's a big piece of steel. In stainless it would be about 2-5/8" x 2-5/8" if it was about 1/8" thick. And of coarse they stipulate 17-4 PH(pre-hardened), one of the more expensive and difficult to machine stainless steels available.
I don't know what in the world they were thinking..... Or maybe I do.

[edgerly779]

Only way I see it working is to embed in fcg holes area and drill thru it If someone furnished me a junk polymer 80% I would try it. I could grind .030 off left side of hammer and disconnector and leave extra .030 in wall thickness then embed .090 stainless plate 3.5 x 2.5 inside area pocket milled out .090 deep and jb weld it in. then drill the 4 holes in it lot of work to save lower that's weaker anyway

[Dezrat]

Only way I see it working is to embed in fcg holes area and drill thru it If someone furnished me a junk polymer 80% I would try it. I could grind .030 off left side of hammer and disconnector and leave extra .030 in wall thickness then embed .090 stainless plate 3.5 x 2.5 inside area pocket milled out .090 deep and jb weld it in. then drill the 4 holes in it lot of work to save lower that's weaker anyway

Do you realize that the "Spectre" the OP is asking about is a Glock pistol frame?
Wasn't sure.

[edgerly779]

no sorry pistol owners sol

[jf5389fj]

Noone is screwed

I imagine this has already been brought up in the many threads on the subject, but it seems to me if you already have a polymer frame firearm, you're screwed.

29180 (b), (2),
(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

"shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction"

It doesn't say anything about serializing an existing frame.

The BIGGEST thing mrOrange left out was right before this section of the bill:

(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:

According to this bill, the 3.7 oz requirement and ALL OTHER REQUIREMENTS don't start until July 1, 2018. Until then, requirements default to Federal guidelines which just require a separate metal plate like this one on a Glock:

https://www.google.com/search?q=glock+17+serial+number&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=974&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc15fnxqvRAhVEzVQKHTb_D6EQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=14OV5ca5e3P-rM%3A

Since your gun now has a serial number,

"The bill would, by January 1, 2019, and subject to exceptions, require any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number to likewise apply to the department for a unique serial number or other mark of identification."

This bill no longer applies.

Yesterday (1/5/2017) I made an appointment to get three Spectre 80 serialized for $25/ea. Don't ask me where because that would put that particular engraver in the ATF spotlight.. Use google and call around. Right now, ALL engravers are pretty "gun shy" about ghost guns because most are confused as to what the new laws mean.

Internet forums are full of "know it alls" that spread a ridiculous amount of disinformation. It's best to do the research yourself. Here is the text of AB-857.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB857

I googled "spectre 80 engraving city name" and just called around. Took me two phone calls to get someone who knew what I wanted.

BTW, I put together a list of the new laws and their start date and links to their text. Here it is:

AB1511 - Firearm loans only to family

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/asm/ab_1501-1550/ab_1511_bill_20160517_amended_sen_v95.pdf

SB880 - 1/1/2018 - Bullet button Ban

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB880

AB1695 - False report to LEOs for lost firearms

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1695

SB1235 - 1/1/19 -Ammo Registration

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB1235

SB1446 - 1/1/17 - Ban of high capacity magazines

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB1446

I've gotten so much bogus info on these new laws from gun shops, this forum and other "supposed experts" that I don't even pay attention to them anymore. For that matter, NOONE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO ME EITHER. Read the bills yourself and take action accordingly.

[boopiejones]

I realize this doesn't help current polymer80 owners, but it looks like the new spectre glock 19 frame might have a metal plate built in...

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018339425/polymer80-pf940cv1-80-pct-pistol-frame-kit-glock-19-23-32-polymer

this metal plate looks small enough that it is likely not 3.7 oz. per the poster above, it sounds like this metal plate would be fine until mid-2018???

[jf5389fj]

Not until 7/1/2018

I realize this doesn't help current polymer80 owners, but it looks like the new spectre glock 19 frame might have a metal plate built in...

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018339425/polymer80-pf940cv1-80-pct-pistol-frame-kit-glock-19-23-32-polymer

this metal plate looks small enough that it is likely not 3.7 oz. per the poster above, it sounds like this metal plate would be fine until mid-2018???

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB857

Come on guys. Either read the whole bill or stop posting misinformation.