MAC Questions

[Harrison_Bergeron]

I'm getting really hyped on building my first gun from scratch and the MACs look like they would be a very good start for me, but I have a few questions.

First, is there such thing as a closed bolt semi-auto MAC 10/45? I can't find a complete parts kit for them so I am left second guessing my understanding of the MAC designations. I would prefer a .45, but if they can't be had, then they can't be had. If they can be had does anyone know where I might find a kit, or at least the bolt?

Second, are there any good .22lr setups for MACs that keep the mag in the grip so that a lock is not necessary?

Third, does anyone know if this kit is worth while? I would prefer not to have to lock the mag, but the side mounted mag could be cool. Does Fleming Firearms have a website?

Thanks

[69Mach1]

You don't need a mag lock on a MAC. It's just like any other semi-auto handgun, except it's not on the approved CA handgun list. Also make sure to get rid of the threaded barrel.

[JeffM]

You don't need a mag lock on a MAC. It's just like any other semi-auto handgun, except it's not on the approved CA handgun list. Also make sure to get rid of the threaded barrel.

The Fleming .22lr kit uses an upper that takes 10/22 mags through the side like a STEN. It would require the mag to be locked. I don't know of any other .22 kits, but I'm sure it could be done. I hear the Flemings have some reliability issues, but I'm sure they could be fixed with some TLC in the right places.

There are M10 .45 closed bolt semi-autos, but I've only looked into building a M11/9, so I would have to do more research to see what's available for the .45.

I was at PRK Arms in Fresno a few days ago and they had a few different models that I was able to take a look at. Vulcan, Colbray, RBP, MPA, closed bolt, open bolt. It was great to see each and note the differences in the manufacturing.

I definitely need an open-bolt MAC one of these days

[Harrison_Bergeron]

The mag lock was in reference to the 22lr kit I linked to that has mag setup like a Sten.

An open bolt needs to be purchased as existing gun made before a certain date, correct?

[Harrison_Bergeron]

Would a MAC 10 "upper" include the bolt? Like if I bought a side cocker upper like in the pic below?

[tombinghamthegreat]

Is there single shot models for sale so you could just convert it to semi auto after the transfer? If there is would it be too expensive or more cost-effective to build yourself?

[Quiet]

If you build a MAC clone, keep in mind it has to be a closed bolt system.

ATF Ruling 82-8 reclassified open-bolt semi-auto MAC type pistols made after 1982 as machineguns. Open-bolt semi-auto MAC type pistols made before 1982 were "grandfathered in" and are not considered machineguns by the BATFE.

[12voltguy]

M10/45 SMG REPLACEMENT PARTS SET (with barrel)
(wireform M-10 stock no longer available) $350.00

http://www.ftfindustries.com//mac_kits.htm

[AJAX22]

First, is there such thing as a closed bolt semi-auto MAC 10/45? I can't find a complete parts kit for them so I am left second guessing my understanding of the MAC designations. I would prefer a .45, but if they can't be had, then they can't be had. If they can be had does anyone know where I might find a kit, or at least the bolt?

Yes, most of the M10's you run into are closed bolt .45's, the parts kits are available from either cobray or ftfindustries (although ftf has been running out of stuff recently)

Second, are there any good .22lr setups for MACs that keep the mag in the grip so that a lock is not necessary?

No the only .22 conversions are the flemming ones for the SMG's which also work on the open bolt RPB guns (not by design, flemming designed his stuff for FA only but because the RPB semi auto guns are essentially machine guns with the selectors fixed in the semi auto position it works on them)

Third, does anyone know if this kit is worth while? I would prefer not to have to lock the mag, but the side mounted mag could be cool. Does Fleming Firearms have a website?

Flemmming has been out of buisness for a very long time(and I think the guy is either dead or in jail, which is a shame since he was a very good gunsmith)
His .22 conversions for the M10 were known for being a bit picky and needing a lot of tweaking and adjustment to run right, but they do work sortof and are fun for plinking, especially in the FA guns.

The one on gunbroker right now is reasonably priced but they do occasionally go for a bit cheeper (they tend to hover in the 400-600 range however)...

You would not be able to run any more than a 10 round mag if you did a side fed upper, and you would have to pin the mag in place. (oh and you'd have to buy a open bolt M10.... which are not cheap)

Would a MAC 10 "upper" include the bolt? Like if I bought a side cocker upper like in the pic below?

No, typically the side cocking uppers do not include the bolt, If you want a side cocking gun its usually much more inexpensive to buy one that comes like that from the factory (even after paying the CA premium to get it into state) The side cocking uppers work with a standard unmodified closed bolt.

An open bolt needs to be purchased as existing gun made before a certain date, correct?

Yes, Yes, Yes..... You cannot make a NEW open bolt setup.... you have to have an original gun, made as an open bolt before a certain date... and even then there are only a very few variants which were not specifically declared to be machine guns.... and there is only a small subgroup of the non machine gun open bolt semi's which are legal in CA.... (and getting them into state under an exemption, finding someone who will dros it, and having it modified so it is not a feature banned assault weapon can be a bit difficult...) this is an easy area to royally screw up in so tread lightly (and I would strongly suggest talking with the guys at PRK if you're serious about open bolt stuff, they're the only ones I know of that have successfully transferred an off list open bolt non rostered MAC type pistol in the state of CA...

Is there single shot models for sale so you could just convert it to semi auto after the transfer? If there is would it be too expensive or more cost-effective to build yourself?

There are no commercially produced single shot models available currently..... they could be NERF'd but you could have one configured custom (again, talk with the PRK guys)

If you build a MAC clone, keep in mind it has to be a closed bolt system.

YES!!!!! Do NOT build yourself a homeade open bolt MAC... it is a federal 'pound you in the *** prison' fellony

M10/45 SMG REPLACEMENT PARTS SET (with barrel)
(wireform M-10 stock no longer available) $350.00
http://www.ftfindustries.com//mac_kits.htm

That is the WRONG parts kit, do not buy it, if you get a SMG or open bolt semi auto parts kit without having a legally owned pre 82 open bolt frame that the parts can work on, then you are guilty of constructive posession of a machine gun if you have a closed bolt MAC along with it.

There are a few fire controll parts which you cannot poses along with a MAC even if you DO have a pre 82 open bolt pistol... since the semi only pistols can accept the SMG fire controll group parts and will run full auto with them installed.

This is one of those areas where you should probably have someone familiar with it walk you through the process.

[Harrison_Bergeron]

Thanks for the info.

Sounds like the info wouldn't do anyone with a closed bolt any good, but I did find a couple other .22 conversions.

http://www.max-11.com/productsnew.html

http://www.subcalmarketing.com/