1911: Thumb position makes a HUGE difference

[WolfMansDad]

I've never been a fan of the 1911 before. I've always found it to be too hard to shoot, due to excessive recoil, and I've heard many old servicemen make the same complaint. This weekend, however, I had the chance to shoot one and decided to try holding it differently from my usual grip.

Until now, I have always curled the thumb of my right hand (the hand that holds the pistol and operates the trigger - I'm right handed) down until the tip of it contacts my middle finger. It just seemed the natural thing to do, and I use the same grip for autos and revolvers. Recently, however, I read Andy Stanford's book, "Surgical Speed Shooting," and in it he recommends keeping the thumb as high as possible. On the 1911 this means leaving it on the safety while shooting. When I read that, I thought it was weird and that the thumb might interfere with the slide or get pinched. On Saturday, however, I decided to try it and see what would happen.

What a difference thumb position makes! That one small change made that .45 feel like a 9mm. It became as mild and easy to control as my glock. Not only that, but it made it point as naturally, too. I tried the "shotgun test," where you close you eyes, mount the gun, and then open your eyes to see where it is pointing, where it naturally wants to point in response to your body. I've always found 1911's to point low for me before, but with my thumb resting on the safety, the slide was level and the sights were aligned or nearly aligned every time. I tried the same grip left handed as well, leaving my left thumb in the air where the safety would be, and the results were the same.

Having gotten good and proud of myself for finding this, I did some more reading Saturday night. Apparently this style of grip is widely taught, and a lot of other people know and use it. I had not heard of it before I read Stanford's book, but I don't shoot handguns a lot.

How many of you keep your thumb high when shooting a pistol? How many of you keep it low? What is the largest caliber you can shoot well? For me, with a low thumb, it used to be 9mm. I never would have guessed that such a small change would make such a big difference.

[Jon]

I'm no expert, but that seems to make sense. When I shoot, I have my thumb in kind of a imaginery gun position (thumb cocked, somewhat like a hammer) and my index finger pointed at the target (obviously, before firing).

Anyhow, thanks for the information and let us know how it translates to other handguns.

[markymark]

My right thumb rests on my left hand (the area right before the left thumb) with both thumbs pointing towards the target

Here's the best picture I can find:

[PistolKidd]

I gotta agree.. you need to move your thumb into position like the picture above... High thumb for 1911 is almost like a given.. it's so much more comfortable to shoot this way..

However, I also shoot Sig Sauer pistols extensively, where teh "high thumb" grip is a detriment.. You end up riding the slide release instead.. THe gun fails to lock back if you grip it this way..

I've been practicing trying to regrip but it's near impossible.. I tend to high thumb as it's an extremely comfortable way to grip almost any firearm.. Thats the only drawback i can see with using this technique.. Shooting things like Sigs and even HK, if you tend to really leverage the thumb, becomes problematic..

Other than that, I absolutely love teh high thumb style for gripping pistols..

[MadMex]

[m1371]

I've never been a fan of the 1911 before. I've always found it to be too hard to shoot, due to excessive recoil, and I've heard many old servicemen make the same complaint. This weekend, however, I had the chance to shoot one and decided to try holding it differently from my usual grip.

Until now, I have always curled the thumb of my right hand (the hand that holds the pistol and operates the trigger - I'm right handed) down until the tip of it contacts my middle finger. It just seemed the natural thing to do, and I use the same grip for autos and revolvers. Recently, however, I read Andy Stanford's book, "Surgical Speed Shooting," and in it he recommends keeping the thumb as high as possible. On the 1911 this means leaving it on the safety while shooting. When I read that, I thought it was weird and that the thumb might interfere with the slide or get pinched. On Saturday, however, I decided to try it and see what would happen.

What a difference thumb position makes! That one small change made that .45 feel like a 9mm. It became as mild and easy to control as my glock. Not only that, but it made it point as naturally, too. I tried the "shotgun test," where you close you eyes, mount the gun, and then open your eyes to see where it is pointing, where it naturally wants to point in response to your body. I've always found 1911's to point low for me before, but with my thumb resting on the safety, the slide was level and the sights were aligned or nearly aligned every time. I tried the same grip left handed as well, leaving my left thumb in the air where the safety would be, and the results were the same.

Having gotten good and proud of myself for finding this, I did some more reading Saturday night. Apparently this style of grip is widely taught, and a lot of other people know and use it. I had not heard of it before I read Stanford's book, but I don't shoot handguns a lot.

How many of you keep your thumb high when shooting a pistol? How many of you keep it low? What is the largest caliber you can shoot well? For me, with a low thumb, it used to be 9mm. I never would have guessed that such a small change would make such a big difference.

Running the "high-thumbs" position with a 1911 has several benefits. You just discovered the primary one, which is reducing felt recoil.

The intent is to get the web of the hand up as high as possible, putting it as close behind the bore axis as possible. You're not necessarily trying to use the safety itself as leverage against the recoil, as I've seen some people try to do.

When you're performing a draw with a 1911, you establish your grip with the thumb riding the safety. As soon as you're ready to fire the safety lever is swept down by the thumb and it stays in place, riding the safety. No excess movement or repositioning your grip after the safety comes off. Sights on target. Safety off. Bang.

Another aspect of riding the safety (ie- shooting high thumbs) is it prevents the shooter from accidentally bumping the safety back on with the knuckle of their thumb. I've seen it happen with 1911's that have the lowered safety levers installed on them.

Running high-thumbs & riding the safety was how I was taught to shoot the 1911 while in the Corps. Every shooting school I've attended and all the shooting instructors I know teach the same technique with the 1911. Not trying to make that sound like a definitive statement, as I haven't attended every single shooting course in the US (not for a lack of trying though ).

The same high-thumbs grip can be used with handguns that have what I like to think of as "reversed safeties", ie the ones that flip up to disengage rather than down. The Beretta M9 and S&W autos come to mind immediately for me. It may take a bit to get accustomed to, but you'll likely see the same improvements you had with the 1911. Same goes for the Glocks and other handguns with no external safety lever.

Happy shooting.


EDIT: Eh, let's just cut to the chase. I'll let Todd Jarrett give you the 4-1/2 minute class on how to properly grip a 1911. Everything you need to know is right there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc

[bu-bye]

This is how I shoot too. I like the 45 more then the 9mm not just because of size but because the recoil is a slower "push" while the 9mm is a "snap". Ridding high on the grip lowers you bore axis and you get more of a strait back recoil and less of a muzzle flip.

[WolfMansDad]

My right thumb rests on my left hand (the area right before the left thumb) with both thumbs pointing towards the target

Here's the best picture I can find:

That's the one, though the 1911 I shot was a lot plainer!

I started out using both hands, and the recoil felt so light at first I thought something was wrong. However, we were shooting silhouettes at 60 yards, and the pistol was whacking them with authority. I then tried shooting one-handed, both right and left, with a high thumb and got the same results. That's when I concluded it was the grip-hand thumb that mattered.

Later in the day, I tried the same one-handed, high-thumb grip with my new seecamp, also with very positive results. I did NOT, however, shoot the seecamp two handed. My support-hand thumb extended past the muzzle, and that didn't seem like such a good idea to me!

[M. Sage]

Here ya go. This video is where I heard about the grip pictured above, and I've shot a few pistols this way since, and it's worked really well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc+handgun

[eckerph]

+1 for the high hand hold, someone posted a link to a video, it was Rob Leathem on American shooter teaching this very technique. Since watching the video i have always used the high hand hold.

[Black Majik]

Agreed, high thumb is the best way to shoot a 1911.

[colossians323]

Agreed, high thumb is the best way to shoot a 1911.

Is that a halo suspended above your head?

[m1371]

Here ya go. This video is where I heard about the grip pictured above, and I've shot a few pistols this way since, and it's worked really well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=ipsc+handgun

Gee, that video link sure looks familiar.....

I think I might have seen it somewhere before.....

EDIT: Eh, let's just cut to the chase. I'll let Todd Jarrett give you the 4-1/2 minute class on how to properly grip a 1911. Everything you need to know is right there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...7071363&q=ipsc

[Sgt Raven]

Another aspect of riding the safety (ie- shooting high thumbs) is it prevents the shooter from accidentally bumping the safety back on with the knuckle of their thumb. I've seen it happen with 1911's that have the lowered safety levers installed on them.

this was the #1 reason they taught us to ride the safety at Gunsite. You don't need a lowered safety to have it happen. I've seen it happen with the old school original "nub" safety lever.

[blkA4alb]

I've had instruction from a very good IPSC shooter (usually places in the top 5 at RRGC.) He has two Valtro 1911s and a Nighthawk and he is amazing with them. He has helped improve my shooting 10 fold at least (Its like having a personal pistol class whenever we go shoot .) Well the point being that ever since he first had me shoot his 1911s he had me have my thumb on top of the safety and now its just a natural reaction to grip that way and ¨suck the hands together.¨ When he fixed my grip he said ¨No more p**** grips¨ .

EDIT, sorry for the horribly constructed post guys.