AR Pistols in CA

[PDX1953]

I don't live in CA but was visiting friends there recently. As a gun enthusiast I dropped by a local gun store & we eventually got around to discussing AR pistols. I asked how stripped lowers were listed on the Form 4473 & he said they could only be sold as rifles. He also said if a stripped lower was transferred into CA as a pistol it could be sold for $500+. I'm just curious to know if he was telling the truth or BS'ing me. My nephew in WA just paid $93 delivered for two stripped Anderson lowers and is building a rifle & a pistol so the $500 price sounded a bit fishy. I know you guys have a hard time with all of the various restrictions & am disappointed to see the trend towards banning the sale of handguns continue in Sacramento. I lived in CA from '82 - '93 & then got transferred to the East coast but when I was in CA I bought quite a few guns without any problems.

I browsed the Classifieds & was shocked at some of the Glock prices. Are 43's really selling for over $700 or are those just ads from dreamers?

[LeadFarmer74]

Yeah since ar pistols are off roster and as accessible they command a higher price. It's pretty astounding the laws we have huh?

[Quiet]

CA laws only allow handguns that are listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale to be transferred by a CA FFL dealer to a non-exempt person.

Any handgun that is not listed or is not exempt, can not be transferred.

Exemptions to this are:
1. Handguns that are dimensionally compliant single-action revolvers.
2. Handguns that are dimensionally complaint bolt-action single-shot pistols.
3. Handguns that are dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistols.
4. Handguns that are C&R.
5. Handguns transferred to a Gov/Mil/LE agency.
6. Handguns transferred to Law Enforcement Officers (LEO).
7. Handguns that are transferred as an out-of-state intra-familial gift.
8. Handguns that are transferred through a private party transfer (PPT)*.
*A PPT is a face-to-face transfer between CA residents facilitated by a CA FFL dealer.
^If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then the transfer is not a PPT.
^If the firearm is shipped, then the transfer is not a PPT.

Because of this off-Roster handguns often sell for a premium price, due to supply/demand economics, when transferred via PPT.

[PDX1953]

CA laws only allow handguns that are listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale to be transferred by a CA FFL dealer to a non-exempt person.

Any handgun that is not listed or is not exempt, can not be transferred.

Exemptions to this are:
1. Handguns that are dimensionally compliant single-action revolvers.
2. Handguns that are dimensionally complaint bolt-action single-shot pistols.
3. Handguns that are dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistols.
4. Handguns that are C&R.
5. Handguns transferred to a Gov/Mil/LE agency.
6. Handguns transferred to Law Enforcement Officers (LEO).
7. Handguns that are transferred as an out-of-state intra-familial gift.
8. Handguns that are transferred through a private party transfer (PPT)*.
*A PPT is a face-to-face transfer between CA residents facilitated by a CA FFL dealer.
^If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then the transfer is not a PPT.
^If the firearm is shipped, then the transfer is not a PPT.

Because of this off-Roster handguns often sell for a premium price, due to supply/demand economics, when transferred via PPT.

Man! That's a whole lotta' hoop jumping to go thru although the intra-family exemption might resolve an issue. My son wants a Ruger Charger & from what I've read they're unavailable for sale thru a CA dealer. It's apparently because the magazine doesn't fit inside the grip ala Glock, etc. If true it's utterly stupid and when I saw a 1" thick book at the LGS titled, "Gun Laws in California" I immediately pitied every legal gun owner in your state. You're only allowed one handgun per month? I've purchased 19 handguns since Dec. 1st & am now buying another 25 gun safe because the one I bought last October is overflowing.

I looked at the intra-family form & all it asks is the relationship of the 'giver'. Doesn't ask where they're from, if they're a felon, etc. etc. My son's BD is in July so maybe he'll own a Charger after all.

[Quiet]

Man! That's a whole lotta' hoop jumping to go thru although the intra-family exemption might resolve an issue. My son wants a Ruger Charger & from what I've read they're unavailable for sale thru a CA dealer. It's apparently because the magazine doesn't fit inside the grip ala Glock, etc. If true it's utterly stupid and when I saw a 1" thick book at the LGS titled, "Gun Laws in California" I immediately pitied every legal gun owner in your state. You're only allowed one handgun per month? I've purchased 19 handguns since Dec. 1st & am now buying another 25 gun safe because the one I bought last October is overflowing.

I looked at the intra-family form & all it asks is the relationship of the 'giver'. Doesn't ask where they're from, if they're a felon, etc. etc. My son's BD is in July so maybe he'll own a Charger after all.

Any handgun transferred needs to be CA legal.

The Ruger Charger is considered an assault weapon under CA laws, because the magazine is located outside of the pistol grip.
This makes it a felony to import/make/transport/possess.

In order to be CA legal, the Ruger Charger needs to be made into a pistol with a fixed 10 round magazine.
This can be done by installing a magazine lock and 10 round magazine.

For the last 47 years, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different State unless a FFL is utilized.
Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for everyone involved.
There is no family or gift exemption to the Federal laws.

In order to comply with Federal laws, the firearm must be transferred through a CA FFL dealer.
Using the CA DOJ form complies with CA laws, but violates Federal laws and documents the violation, which makes prosecution easier for the Feds.

[PDX1953]

Forgot to ask - does a PPT require that both CA parties have Handgun Safety Certificates?

I have three CHLs - OR, AZ, & UT which allows me to carry in 40 states, just not your's. The UT permit is actually a Concealed Weapon Permit so it's not limited to firearms.

[Quiet]

Forgot to ask - does a PPT require that both CA parties have Handgun Safety Certificates?

I have three CHLs - OR, AZ, & UT which allows me to carry in 40 states, just not your's. The UT permit is actually a Concealed Weapon Permit so it's not limited to firearms.

A PPT is a face-to-face transfer between CA residents facilitated by a CA FFL dealer.
^If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then the transfer is not a PPT.
^If the firearm is shipped, then the transfer is not a PPT.

The person receiving the firearm needs a valid Firearms Safety Certificate (FSC) or exemption to the FSC.
On 01-01-2015, the FSC replaced the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC), but unexpired HSC is still valid for acquisition of handguns.

[PDX1953]

Any handgun transferred needs to be CA legal.

The Ruger Charger is considered an assault weapon under CA laws, because the magazine is located outside of the pistol grip.
This makes it a felony to import/make/transport/possess.

In order to be CA legal, the Ruger Charger needs to be made into a pistol with a fixed 10 round magazine.
This can be done by installing a magazine lock and 10 round magazine.

That's good to know. Are you aware of such a device for that gun? Since it's just a 10/22 I think it'd be pretty hard to load via the breech. If I built an AR pistol with a bullet button it could transfer intra-family, correct? While I was there we built an AR rifle on a registered, stripped lower.

[Quiet]

That's good to know. Are you aware of such a device for that gun? Since it's just a 10/22 I think it'd be pretty hard to load via the breech. If I built an AR pistol with a bullet button it could transfer intra-family, correct? While I was there we built an AR rifle on a registered, stripped lower.

I think some people have made some custom magazine locks for the Ruger 10/22 Charger, but, AFAIK, no one makes/sells them commercially.

AR pistol with maglock + 10 round magazine would be CA legal, but it needs to be made before being imported into CA.

[PDX1953]

A PPT is a face-to-face transfer between CA residents facilitated by a CA FFL dealer.
^If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then the transfer is not a PPT.
^If the firearm is shipped, then the transfer is not a PPT.

The person receiving the firearm needs a valid Firearms Safety Certificate (FSC) or exemption to the FSC.
On 01-01-2015, the FSC replaced the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC), but unexpired HSC is still valid for acquisition of handguns.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasn't aware of the change in name.

One thing I learned a couple of years ago was that it's illegal for ammo to be delivered to any Sacramento residential address with the zip code starting 958xx. I just ship it to my son at a UPS Customer Service Center & he gets a text when it arrives. I think there are only two in the area - West Sac & Rancho Cordova so it's sort of a moot point.

[heidad01]

You were at a gun shop with a calif gun enthusiast friend???
Any chance of being a DOJ shill asking your questions here?

[FIREBALL_BRIAN]

I have never heard of anyone willing to pay $500 for a stripped pistol AR lower

[PDX1953]

I think some people have made some custom magazine locks for the Ruger 10/22 Charger, but, AFAIK, no one makes/sells them commercially.

AR pistol with maglock + 10 round magazine would be CA legal, but it needs to be made before being imported into CA.

Right - because the lower would need to be designated as a pistol prior to entering the state, correct?

On the 4473 an FFL can chose Rifle, Pistol or Other with stripped lowers & my FFL always uses Other. Your state only allows Rifle according to the LGS I spoke to. Franklin Armory seems to have CA legal guns that are classified by the ATF as "Other" which is pretty unique because they are in effect a pistol.

Franklin also sells AOWs which is only a $5.00 tax stamp. I'm waiting for my tax stamp so I can build a 10.5" SBR but it was $200. Can you own any Class 3 stuff there?

[PDX1953]

You were at a gun shop with a calif gun enthusiast friend???
Any chance of being a DOJ shill asking your questions here?

I can PROMISE you that I'd NEVER help the ATF or CA DOJ even if they just wanted to know how to cross the street! I think the ATF is an agency that has gone way off their original mission which was to catch moon shiners. Ruby Ridge happened because an undercover ATF agent got Randy Weaver to cut down a shotgun IIRC.

When I heard about the bombing in OKC and learned the ATF had an office there I immediately told my son it was payback for Ruby Ridge & Waco. Eventually it came out that I was correct.

My son was a military contractor & still has Secret clearance as well as a current CA DOJ clearance. He upgraded / installed telephone equipment in prisons all over the state including Pelican Bay and I used to joke that he got out of San Quentin for the third time.

[PDX1953]

I have never heard of anyone willing to pay $500 for a stripped pistol AR lower

I sort of wondered if the guy I spoke with was stretching it a bit. There are obscenely expensive stripped lowers on the market but they're usually billet vs forged or cast. An example is a $450 Spike's Tactical Gen 2 billet lower but it comes with some extra, expensive parts. Their skull lower is $300 but it required a huge amount of G code for their CNC mill.