What is considered loaded/unloaded?

[drkphibr]

Sounds like a silly question and I would be asking this in the thread that got me thinking about it, but that thread is now closed.

Another member commented "You can have loaded magazines in the trunk next to your UNLOADED (empty chamber/empty mag well). Same with speed loaders or strips. The bullets need to be affixed/ in the gun for the gun to be considered loaded." BTW - not bashing this member, just using the comment as a point of discussion.

So my thoughts:

1. I consider a gun unloaded to be one that has no bullets in a magazine, cyclinder or chambered.
2. Where things get interesting are comments saying "empty magwell. A gun with an EMTPY magazine inserted, to me, is the same as a gun without...no bullets mean it's unloaded."
3. A semi with an empty magazine inserted is the same as a revolver with an empty, closed cylinder IMO. Saying the magazine must be out of the gun would be akin to saying the cylinder must be out (or open) of the revolver for a revolver to be considered unloaded.
4. If "bullets need to be affixed/in the gun for the gun to be considered loaded", then by that point, a gun with an empty, but inserted magazine would be considered unloaded (which I agree with).

I guess you could consider these points very similar to the discussion of keeping a gun in a locked container...but some feel the loaded magazine cannot be in the same container. Based on how the PC reads, I don't agree with that and as long as the loaded magazine is not in the gun, it can be in the same container next to the gun.

The best information is found on the CGF wiki page which clarifies the issue for CA ~rkt

https://web.archive.org/web/20151027143640/http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_loaded_in_California

[diveRN]

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660

[steel30]

Keeping a loaded magazine in the same locked container as the unloaded handgun is perfectly legal, but some go the extra mile and seperate them for peace of mind. It seems that if the magazine is empty and the gun has no ammunition in the chamber and the magazine is in the magwell of then handgun, with NO ammunition, the gun would still be considered unloaded.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Based on how the PC reads, as long as the loaded magazine is not in the gun, it can be in the same container next to the gun.

Yeah, that's consistent with what the Librarian wrote.

[calif 15-22]

I tend to be super conservative when traveling to the range so for me:

Gun is empty no mag locked in Gun Case.
Mags are empty locked in Range Bag.
Ammo is stored in Range Bag in unlocked compartment.
Both Range Bag and Gun Case are locked in Trunk.

Overkill yes, but I look awful in Orange.

[NiteQwill]

The PC is CLEAR.

Heck, even the CHP advises on the issue:

If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at (916) 227-3703.

[nothingextra]

I've known a few people that have gotten hassled by wanna be cops at the range or store for full mags, unloaded weapon, same locked container.

I guess there is a reason why those guys keep failing tests, or are considered non hires.

[drkphibr]

I tend to be super conservative when traveling to the range...

Absolutely nothing wrong with being conservative. It's the info, or rather, the incorrect info about what can/can't be done that is out there that confuses the unloaded/loaded (and locked container as well regarding loaded mags) point...adds FUD to the mix.

Agreed, to me the PC is clear, just as the CHP advisory when visiting CA with firearms.

[sonofeugene]

Keeping a loaded magazine in the same locked container as the unloaded handgun is perfectly legal, but some go the extra mile and seperate them for peace of mind. It seems that if the magazine is empty and the gun has no ammunition in the chamber and the magazine is in the magwell of then handgun, with NO ammunition, the gun would still be considered unloaded.

This. It's not rocket science.

However, why stick an empty magazine in your pistol? I'd much rather have full mags next to the gun (same container). 'Saves time should you actually need the gun.

[heidad01]

I tend to be super conservative when traveling to the range so for me:

Gun is empty no mag locked in Gun Case.
Mags are empty locked in Range Bag.
Ammo is stored in Range Bag in unlocked compartment.
Both Range Bag and Gun Case are locked in Trunk.

Overkill yes, but I look awful in Orange.

That is what I do and recommend to anyone who asks. You know the PC and I do too, but does Barney Fife know that??

How would you like to have to the discussion about the applicable PC with Barney from an 8 man Department in a rural area where his cousin is the sheriff and his spervisor?
Most LEOs are semi well versed in PCs applicable to writing up Mini Van soccer moms, BE, domestic abuse, and petty crimes. Most of them have no clues about guns or gun laws.

LEOs are welcome to comment about the time they arrived and corrected Barney in not hassling a citizen for a PC they are clueless about.

[calif 15-22]

That is what I do and recommend to anyone who asks. You know the PC and I do too, but does Barney Fife know that??

How would you like to have to the discussion about the applicable PC with Barney from an 8 man Department in a rural area where his cousin is the sheriff and his spervisor?
Most LEOs are semi well versed in PCs applicable to writing up Mini Van soccer moms, BE, domestic abuse, and petty crimes. Most of them have no clues about guns or gun laws.

LEOs are welcome to comment about the time they arrived and corrected Barney in not hassling a citizen for a PC they are clueless about.

Exactly . . . I do know the law, but I rather not have to educated the uninformed LEO or worst the aggressive LEO on the side of the road.

It's not a big deal for me just do my routine and it works for me.

[Germz]

good lord is this a serious question?

anyway. there are two definitions, one is common law, the other is the DFG's definition.

commonly, loaded is round in a position to be fired - meaning in a magazine that is inserted into the weapon but not necessarily in the chamber; a condition 3 weapon

DFG considers THAT not loaded, and instead considers a chambered round to "loaded".

[NIKSD]

We have gone over this before. Be careful, loaded magazines in the same container with unloaded gun may put you in jail. There were some special surcumstances where loaded magazines in the same container with the gun were BIG NO! more knowledgeable guys will be more specific, just stand by.

[Librarian]

FAQ: WAYBACK version of the wiki -- https://web.archive.org/web/20151027..._in_California

[heidad01]

^^^^
Thanks for the link to PC.