California Legal Firearms

[Ryng]

So I looked at the DOJ roster and certain guns are unclear whether they are legal or not. Like for example P239 (Blue) is legal but no specific model number. When I looked at gun broker saw a P239 that was for sale but said would not ship to California cause it wasn't legal. So does that mean the SAS Gen 2 are legal too?

Also when I sold my P250 Compact Two-Tone the FFL dealer at Mil Spec Armory in San Jose kept telling me that this pistol was never legal. But I told him that i got it about 3 months ago and it was still on roster. He kept insisting that I illegally got it cause its not the CA approved one cause it never came out or something. He was even saying my FFL dealer might get in trouble too.

Just some questions or thoughts I had running around my mind. Hope i posted this in the right section.

[Librarian]

Again, the Roster is not a list of guns legal in CA.

It's a list of handguns dealers are allowed to sell to 'just anybody'.

Off-Roster handguns are legal to own, possess, use, and sell to other CA residents in a CA 'Private Party Transfer' (PPT).

Identifying a particular model in hand as a model listed on the Roster can sometimes be a challenge.

[saudadeii]

The P250 compact two tone went off roster Jan 1 2016.

[Ryng]

Yeah I know p250 went off roster Jan 1 2016 I bought it when it was on roster. But he was saying still during the time I bought my the p250 it was still illegal or something.

[smittty]

Yeah I know p250 went off roster Jan 1 2016 I bought it when it was on roster. But he was saying still during the time I bought my the p250 it was still illegal or something.

Gun store employees!

[ktmguy]

Just a heads up but Bay Area gun store employees honestly think they know everything and usually are just plain wrong and ignorant. I have began to consider them equal to used car salesmen.

[Cokebottle]

Just a heads up but Bay Area gun store employees honestly think they know everything and usually are just plain wrong and ignorant. I have began to consider them equal to used car salesmen.

It's not just bay area gun store employees.

[ktmguy]

My mistake those are the only ones I have to put up with.

[Ryng]

Yeah I was guessing that was the case. He was even saying "im tired of people coming in here arguing like they know what they're talking about. im the one who works a gun store" I'm pretty new to guns and I kept telling him "I got it when it was legal" but he kept saying it was never legal. I got a little scared so came here for clarification, super intimidating.

Could anyone answer my question on the P239 though too? Like upon looking up the gun even more there's a CA model but i don't think there's LCI or Mag Disconnect on it. Just confusing.

[djflash]

I've seen the owner of Mil-Spec try to slam dunk a guy on a Smith & Wesson 500 a while back. He was telling him Smith is pulling out of CA, no one in the state had one (I saw one earlier that day nearby) and it was his last chance. The customer seemed like a decent guy but I'd say he was nowhere ready for a S&W 500.

Anyway I would have just pointed him to the DOJ's recently removed handgun list. Page 3 clearly shows a Sig p250 two-tone.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/removed.pdf

I believe this is the list of Sig's CA approved p239's. Their website is pretty good about listing the CA models.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx

[Cokebottle]

Yeah I was guessing that was the case. He was even saying "im tired of people coming in here arguing like they know what they're talking about. im the one who works a gun store" I'm pretty new to guns and I kept telling him "I got it when it was legal" but he kept saying it was never legal. I got a little scared so came here for clarification, super intimidating.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over "off roster" and "illegal"
An off-roster gun is illegal to transfer from dealer inventory.
It is legal to transfer person to person (at a dealer), consignment, and intafamilial.
"Illegal" is defined here: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf
If it doesn't fall under "illegal" on that flowchart, it is not illegal to possess in California

As for the gun shop owner, there are a few options.
Smile, nod, and buy what you came for.
Smile, nod, and take your business elsewhere.
Smile, nod, and say "Well, maybe you should look at the actual law because you don't know what you're talking about" and take your business elsewhere.

Could anyone answer my question on the P239 though too? Like upon looking up the gun even more there's a CA model but i don't think there's LCI or Mag Disconnect on it. Just confusing.

It all depends on when it was first listed.
My two Glocks have an LCI but no mag disconnect.
My Shield has an LCI, Mag disconnect, but no microstamping.
My 1911 has none of the above.
The above 4 were all purchased in the last 5 years, and could be legally purchased tomorrow.

The 1911 was listed on the roster when the only requirement was to pass a drop test.
The Glocks were listed when the requirement was to pass the drop test and have EITHER an LCI or a Mag Disconnect.
In 2008, the law was changed, and any gun added to the roster after 2008 required both an LCI and a Mag Disconnect.
Now, microstamping is required, and since the technology does not exist, no new semiautomatic handguns will be added to the roster.

As long as the manufacturer pays $200 per year to maintain the listing, that specific model will remain on the roster.
The other issue is manufacturing changes. In the case of the S&W M&P line, and the Colt 1911 line, manufacturing changes (by 3rd party suppliers) resulted in DOJ requiring a re-test, even though the model number was not changed. The re-test invokes current requirements (microstamping).

HAD the manufacturers continued to pay the $200 for the listed guns, and changed the model number on the current production, then we would be able to continue to buy remaining inventory of the original guns, or execute FFL-to-FFL transfers and buy from out of state through an FFL.
Only the new guns would be off-roster.
Instead, the manufacturers chose to maintain the same model number (like Glock, you can get the G17 in Gen 1, 2, or 3, all would be considered "on roster" even though the Gen3 is the only one still made)

[ar15robert]

Just a heads up but Bay Area gun store employees honestly think they know everything and usually are just plain wrong and ignorant. I have began to consider them equal to used car salesmen.

IMO it seems like this aint only a bay area thing i hear it at a couple gun stores i have been to recently in Orange county.Especially when you talk ar 15s and mention you already have a RAW i have heard it all to registration only means you can only keep it at home to doj has no records of the registration in their system anymore.

[califungeek]

Just a heads up but Bay Area gun store employees honestly think they know everything and usually are just plain wrong and ignorant. I have began to consider them equal to used car salesmen.

Agree. A gun store employees once told me that for the county I belong to , I could list unlimited number of handguns in my CCW. Now, I just happen to have the CCW and know the facts that only 3 is allowed.

[P5Ret]

Someone could write a book, about the things they hear or are told to them in gun store's, it would probably be a rather funny and insightful read.

[SkyHawk]

The only Sig P239 on the roster is the plain P239. Not the SAS, not the Scorpion, not the DAK etc.

Never trust a Gunbroker listing to tell you what is or isn't legal in CA - ever.

The P239 on the roster is the free state version, it is one of the last remaining legit free state Sigs you can get here. Get it, you will love it.