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  • trackcage
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1777

    G20 - The Mighty 10

    TL;DR: I bought a 10mm Glock 20 SF. Check out my pics.

    So I've been thinking about 10mm ever since I started handloading. The round is appealing to me as a fun, fairly hard-hitting round then has a very high marginal savings when compared with factory, off the shelf ammunition.

    As a non-exempt person, your 10mm choices are awfully limited. On roster choices, it's Glock or Kimber. Even if you wait around and try to PPT on of the "other tens," you pay the off-roster premium - which I really struggle with. I'm buying this as a shooter, not a display piece. If I felt there was something better, worth the premium, then I would consider it. But if the masses are any indication, the 10mm world loves the Glock.

    This leads me to my choice: a Glock 20 SF. I'm not a huge Glock fan, honestly. They aren't much to look at, and every model pretty much looks the same. It is a tool that lacks much of the character of some other fine firearms. But they just run. It takes a lot to kill a Glock and especially with the 10mm round choice, I want a platform that could take a long-term beating of stout full-house loads.

    I already own a G19 with some of the basic mods. In my case, it's a range toy that also serves double-duty as my HD. If I ever had to use it for defense, I wouldn't want to get into the trigger modification arguments. It has talon grips and dawson sights. That's it for that one.

    I realize as I am typing this that I never took a picture in fully stock form. Oh well, I think by now everyone here knows what a stock Glock should look like. Now on to the fun stuff.

    Step one was to add talon grips. Some people love 'em, some don't. I personally like having a strong purchase on the gun and feel the gen 3 stock grip is fairly slippery. Again, especially with full-power 10mm ammo, I want to hold on.



    You hear members of this forum and others mention "glocked" brass or a "glock smile." While a certain looseness in the chamber support department can make for a reliable, fighting gun that Glocks are known to be, it also creates a chamber support issue for someone like myself who intends to re-use the brass many times. Even with certain tools to remove the glock smile, the case will never be as strong where the brass stretched. That's just a fact. Queue a lone wolf barrel. Better chamber support and the ability to run cast bullets, should I ever get the inclination. Not that this is a reason to get another barrel, but I think the black on silver look is pretty slick too.





    To properly cycle and eat full-house 10mm loads, I need to address the recoil spring. You probably could just leave it alone, but the spring is fairly light. I don't need to beat up the slide of the gun unnecessarily, and my brass would fly into another zip code. I went with the stainless guide rod and a 24# spring from the lone wolf sight. Seems that many of the 10mm guys suggest either a 22# or 24#. No pics of that specifically, but it is installed in the pic above.

    That's all for now. I just picked her up this past Monday and will get a chance to take her to the range first thing tomorrow morning. I've bought a couple boxes of underwood to run through and will also be working up a ladder of my own 10mm to test out. Here she is as she sits. You can see I really put that stock barrel to good use .



    More to come... I plan to address the sights, maybe some trigger parts, holster, accessories, etc. after I put some rounds through her! Also a range report to come over the weekend after I run 'er through the paces.
  • #2
    trackcage
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1777

    Range report:

    *As usual, any handload data is at your own risk. These loads are, at times, above published load data. Work up your own loads and stay safe out there.*

    I spent a couple hours at LPRG (Livermore) outdoor range this morning. Fired 40 rounds (18 handloads, 22 factory rounds). The factory ammo used was two different varieties of Underwood (180gr FMJ and 200gr hard cast). The 180gr are rated at 1350 FPS and the 200gr hard cast are rated at 1250 FPS. I do not have a chronograph so I cannot speak to the accuracy of these claims. My first thought - these seem pretty stout. The only other 10mm rounds I have shot were a Hornady defense round (do not remember bullet weight or specifics). This was done out of a G30 with a 10mm conversion barrel (effectively a G29). While the Hornady's were decently hot, the Underwood is much hotter, even out of a longer barrel and heavier gun.

    My goal is/was to replicate hot factory ammo with my handloads. I do not feel any need to shoot watered down (basically .40S&W) rounds. To me, this purchase was a toy designed to be as much of a hand-cannon as the round was originally intended (Aside: I would, one day, like to find some old 80's era Norma to see what those loads are like...). After firing a couple of the Underwood rounds, it was time to start testing the ladder of handloads I brought with me. Again, work up your own loads and use my experience at your own risk.

    I grabbed the 500 pieces of new Starline brass I recently purchased, fired up my 550B with some Power Pistol and got things going. I've been using Xtreme copper-plated for my handloads in other calibers, so I decided to give their 180gr pills a go here as well. I started at 7.8gr and built a ladder up to 8.9gr. Anything below mid 8 grains felt lighter than the Underwood. I believe these can go a bit beyond 9 grains, based on my "butt dial" feel of the 8.9gr I built up. Again, this is all without a chrono so if I decide to push it much further than I have so far, I think I'll either make the investment or borrow one from a friend. When comparing my loads to the Underwood, I think they are still a bit stronger than my loads. It's close enough that I need to start going to the figures. By feel alone, it's close. I don't intend or desire to blow my hand off, so I'll probably stick somewhere between 8.6 - 9.2 gr from here on out. I usually stick to published book values, so this is fairly new territory for me. I have no pride of authorship, and would have gladly torn down the rounds I made if I felt any sense of foul-play or over pressure signs.

    So that's a lot about the rounds I fired, but how about my experience with the pistol so far? Well don't get me wrong, the gun has some recoil. That being said, with the heavier recoil spring (and being used to a G19 sized frame) I felt the gun held its own very well. The brass did not eject into another zip code, and I did not feel the gun "bottoming out" like I feel it would have with the stock (18lb I think) recoil spring. I think I made the right choice jumping all the way up to the 24lb spring.

    Another claim I've heard a bit on this forum and others is that an aftermarket barrel can cause failure to feed issues with a Glock. The tighter chamber relative to the stock Glock barrel means flat point or hollow point rounds can more-easily be stuck on the feed ramp and cause the weapon not to go into battery. No such issue here - the lone wolf barrel and pistol in general performed flawlessly.

    In the accuracy and point & feel departments, the Glock is like any other Glock I have shot. My G20 is as accurate as the goon with his booger hook on the bang switch. Some moan and grown about the Glock grip angle, but I find Glocks to point just fine. I've made my overall Glock look & feel comments before, so I'll save you from that again, but in general the gun did everything I expected and more.

    More info to come after I take her out a few more times. And more updates as I think more about upgrades and accessories to add for this pistol. A fun day at the range, no doubt.
    Last edited by trackcage; 10-31-2015, 10:04 PM.

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    • #3
      trackcage
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2015
      • 1777

      Realizing this is more of an ammo & reloading topic, but I want to try and aggregate as much good info into this thread as I can. Much of what I've said here is a piecemeal from what I've read and my own research, but good to have all the info in one place. Hopefully some find it useful and that this ultimately helps those on the fence about the G20 or 10mm.

      Just brewed up a small batch of handloads. As I said before in my range report above, I wanted to further explore a couple of loads I was testing.

      *Use at your own risk*

      Caliber: 10mm
      Case: Starline (new)
      Primer: CCI LPP
      Powder: Alliant Power Pistol
      Powder grains: 8.6 gr
      Projectile: Xtreme Copper Plated 180gr
      OAL: 1.26 inches

      Here's how they turned out.



      For the sake of comparison, here are my handloads up against the two flavors of Underwood I purchased. From left to right: Underwood 180gr FMJ, Underwood 200gr hard cast, handload recipe above.



      I also brewed up a handful of 9.0gr loads (in my previous load work up, I went up to 8.9gr so I know I can jump to these without significant danger). If I like what I see here, I'll probably go forward with these. To reiterate, I need to run my loads through a chrono before I am fully satisfied with what I'm pushing out and arrive on a final recipe.

      Both recipes referenced above are beyond published book values, so be careful and happy shootin'!
      Last edited by trackcage; 11-01-2015, 9:46 AM.

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      • #4
        trackcage
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2015
        • 1777

        Reserved 3

        Comment

        • #5
          Win231
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2015
          • 2099

          I'm also considering a Glock 10mm. I have six other Glocks & none have ever malfunctioned in over 18,000 rounds between them. I've read the Glock is one of the few 10mm's that can withstand repeated firings with max loads.

          Re: The Talon Grips. After trying them on my Mod. 22, I pulled off the "Decal Grips" on my other Glocks & replaced them with Talons. You don't have to grip the gun as hard which means less fatigue for us "older" shooters.

          Comment

          • #6
            trackcage
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2015
            • 1777

            Originally posted by Win231
            I've read the Glock is one of the few 10mm's that can withstand repeated firings with max loads.

            Re: The Talon Grips.
            That seemed to be a theme in my research as well. I would hate to spend more on the weapon and then feel like I was beating it to death. The Glock doesn't seem to care (according to first hand reports and similar threads). I'll let the other members with high round count Glock 10mm's chime in until I can get mine to a higher round count threshold.

            I love the talon grips. Didn't even attempt to shoot the G20 before throwing them on. Maybe that was a mistake, solely because it would have been nice to know when it was like without them. I knew from my G19 experience I was going to install a set either way. Maybe if I was carrying it I would not want the sandpaper for comfort and/or catching on clothes reasons, but for either my G19 or G20 that is not the case

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            • #7
              trackcage
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2015
              • 1777

              Range report update in post # 2 for those interested.

              Comment

              • #8
                Carcassonne
                Veteran Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 4897

                Originally posted by trackcage

                My goal is/was to replicate hot factory ammo with my handloads. I do not feel any need to shoot watered down (basically .40S&W) rounds. To me, this purchase was a toy designed to be as much of a hand-cannon as the round was originally intended (Aside: I would, one day, like to find some old 80's era Norma to see what those loads are like...). After firing a couple of the Underwood rounds, it was time to start testing the ladder of handloads I brought with me. Again, work up your own loads and use my experience at your own risk.


                If you have a 10mm http://10mm-firearms.com is your friend.












                Lots of pull-down loads for the 10mm http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/

                .
                Be sure to ask your doctor if depression, rectal bleeding, and suicide are right for you.

                In the United States a person's expertise on a subject is inversely proportional to their knowledge of the subject: The less they know about something, the more they become an expert on it.

                I am being held hostage in a giant insane asylum called Earth.

                Comment

                • #9
                  trackcage
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2015
                  • 1777

                  ^^ Thanks. I joined their site while I was on my 10 day wait for the G20, but have not had a chance to fully poke around all their sub-forums just yet. Tons of good info.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    BlackReef
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 3616

                    Just FYI I put maybe 500 rounds of .40SW through my Gen4 Glock 20 without any issues. I would even stagger the 10mm rounds in the magazine with the 40SW. There was no mistaking when you just fired an Underwood 10MM round though lol

                    Enjoy

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      CandG
                      Spent $299 for this text!
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 16970

                      Awesome thread. My favorite (and daily carry) pistol is my G29, and you're making me seriously consider adding a G20 to the collection.

                      Good call on the recoil spring, the stock ones in glock 10mm's is very weak, the same one as the 45acp models use. No prob for the normal 10mm ammo from your LGS, but when shooting hand-loads, Underwood, etc, your slide will beat the S**T out of your frame without a stronger spring.

                      You've got a beautiful ugly pistol Congrats
                      Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


                      Comment

                      • #12
                        trackcage
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2015
                        • 1777

                        Originally posted by BlackReef
                        Just FYI I put maybe 500 rounds of .40SW through my Gen4 Glock 20 without any issues. I would even stagger the 10mm rounds in the magazine with the 40SW. There was no mistaking when you just fired an Underwood 10MM round though lol

                        Enjoy
                        Good to know. I don't have any other firearms chambered in .40 but it's always nice to have options. I realize you're talking about shooting. 40 out of a 10mm barrel, but along those lines I do plan to add at least a couple conversion barrels. 9x25 dillon will be the first . I've heard it's no fun to shoot...

                        Originally posted by cockedandglocked
                        Awesome thread. My favorite (and daily carry) pistol is my G29, and you're making me seriously consider adding a G20 to the collection.

                        Good call on the recoil spring, the stock ones in glock 10mm's is very weak, the same one as the 45acp models use. No prob for the normal 10mm ammo from your LGS, but when shooting hand-loads, Underwood, etc, your slide will beat the S**T out of your frame without a stronger spring.

                        You've got a beautiful ugly pistol Congrats
                        If you want a more target-oriented 10mm, go pick up the 20. I'm sure your 29 can handle it as well but you probably feel the recoil more. It's a little early to tell, but so far the purchase and experience has been a good one.

                        Interested to hear more about the G29 as a carry pistol. I guess it depends a lot on the load, but my gut says you would hit the bad guy, go through a car door, and clip 2 or 3 civilians on the way out. What kind of defense ammo do you carry? Since it is for defense are you still using stock barrel/recoil spring?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          ar15robert
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 2441

                          I just bought one as well that was for sale here last month.Picked it up last thursday and shot a few rounds thru it last weekend.

                          Im not much of a glock guy prefer 1911s but wanted something for a camp/fishing/outdoor gun.Was considering a .357 but those have gotten pricey and been reading up on the 10mm so it was a no brainer.

                          Had i known more about them years ago i would have bought a 1911 version back in the mid 90s.A neighbor had a s&w 1006 back then but i thought they werent that powerful.I have been reloading for many years so ammo aint gonna be a problem either.

                          Got a new guide rod and a 22 pound spring coming soon too.I plan on loading near full power loads as i dont believe in buying higher power guns only to shoot them with lower power loads.Still studying load data think i want to focus on 180-200 grn bullets.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                          • #15
                            trackcage
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 1777

                            Post # 3 edited with some ammo & reloading info. I know this isn't exactly the right subforum for that, but hope you guys don't mind. More thorough info is good, right?

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