Schwartz vs. Series 80

[saudadeii]

I bought a Ruger 1911 CMD last year. Series 70 with titanium FP. I have about 500-ish rounds with no non-mag/ammo related issues.

[Full Spectrum Firearms]

Between those 2 choices the Colt. Parts are standard and the series 80 crap can be disconnected.

[optimus-primer]

I got real curious about this too several weeks ago and went a-search'n. Ended up on the 1911forums in the colt section. Most seemed to love the series 80 and have no issues.
The few negative statements were only from the '70's only' camp.

From what I have been told (I have not seen any really press info) the XSE has been dropped from the lineup. If true, it wouldn't bad to grab one but like the others, the SA makes would be a great starting point.

[sholling]

Early version of the Series 80 were disliked by purists because it did effect the trigger. I haven't played with newer versions enough to know if they've solved that problem.

There is nothing wrong with a Swartz (the correct spelling) safety if it's done well. S&W did a good job designing a robust version, Kimber, in my opinion did not. Kimber relies on a skinny, somewhat fragile pin to release the firing pin. It was fragile enough that they used to exempt it from their already short warranty.

[JTROKS]

It's not a matter of which safety design is better, but you'll thank us for recommending Colt. Consider a Springfield for its a Series 70 - no firing pin block.

If you're doing a full Custom as in pouring lots of premium parts and having a top gunsmith to build it you may want to go with a forged or bar stock frame. Les Baer, Nowlin or STI. I'm not saying Caspian frames are junk. I've only have 1 frame crack from hard use firing thousands of 38 Super at 175+ power factor. It was a Caspian frame that was hard chromed.

[Robert1234]

Any issues with Springfields & their titanium firing pin & extra strong spring? If not, that's a pretty clean solution to the drop safe issue.

Only issues I had with my Springfield (Loaded Target 9mm), and a friend has the same gun with the same issues, is the parts are crap. Firing pin and firing pin spring have never given me a problem.

A tiny bit of work on the sear and it didn't work; hammer wouldn't stay on sear.

That and the super loose fit. Accuracy was ok, better now after my upgrades (I"ll list them at the end), but for what they charge, the frame to slide fit could have been better.

What I did to it;

Cylinder & Slide ignition kit (whatever was the cheapest one they had, I made it what I wanted once I got it with judicious polishing and sear primary and secondary angle work. 3.5 lb trigger now, no creep, minimum overtravel.

Kimber ambi safety. I like the way the Kimber ambi thumb safety is supported by the hammer pin, EGW makes one similar, but it's machined from bar stock and costs 3x what the Kimber unit does. I have the Kimber unit on two other guns, thousands of rounds in USPSA matches with no issues.

STI plastic trigger. It works, it's inexpensive and I can't think of any reason to spend a lot of money on a trigger. Only reason I changed out the one in the gun is it was loose and rattled plus the overtravel screw wouldn't stay put no matter what I did to it.

EGW angle bored bushing. Tightened up the front of the gun nicely.

EGW .200" slide stop. Went a long way toward tightening up the barrel lockup. Still a smidge of play there, but much better. These two items made the gun a laser.

Dawson Precision .1" front sight. Unit that came with the gun was too wide for my tastes.

GI guide rod and EGW tall spring plug (matches the bushing, looks very nice).

EGW mainspring housing and magwell. I use the gun in USPSA matches, so I needed a magwell and this got rid of Springfield's stupid ILS parts.

EGW firing pin stop.

9 lb recoil spring, 17 lb mainspring. 100% ignition, and the mainspring helps get a nice light trigger.

Only Springfield parts left are slide, firing pin, firing pin spring, frame, extractor, ejector, rear sight, barrel and grip safety. It's a super nice gun now, accurate as hell, super nice trigger and recoil that is so light it almost feels like it's not recoiling at all.

[robodeer]

Great info.

[LowThudd]

Early version of the Series 80 were disliked by purists because it did effect the trigger. I haven't played with newer versions enough to know if they've solved that problem.

There is nothing wrong with a Swartz (the correct spelling) safety if it's done well. S&W did a good job designing a robust version, Kimber, in my opinion did not. Kimber relies on a skinny, somewhat fragile pin to release the firing pin. It was fragile enough that they used to exempt it from their already short warranty.

Yea, that is the downside to the Swartz. If you pull the slide off with the grip safety depressed, it is possible to shear it. I actually read of this happening from a LEO armorer on the 1911 forum. Two LEOs had found out during firearms testing that their Kimbers wouldn't fire. It was determined that they themselves had incorrectly removed the slide and damaged the gun. But from what I have heard, you really have to force it to shear the pin.

I am going to install this to make it easier to disassemble my Custom II, for when I do a Rowland conversion. https://competitionshooters.com/guid...son-precision/


Long video on a short and Full rail .

[Robert1234]

I've had a Custom II since 2001. I've inadvertently held down the grip safety while installing the slide. Only thing that happened is the slide wouldn't go on. I'd have had to hit the slide with a hammer to shear that little pin.

It makes reassembly kind of idiosyncratic, but nothing major.

[RogueSniper]

I don't have any experience with either, but from looking at them both for purely educational purposes, from what I remember, Schwartz has nothing to do with Trigger or firing mechanism at all, so I would assume that it would have the least (or none) effect on the trigger pull. I don't think Series 80 would add too much to the trigger pull weight, as most of it comes from the sear/hammer engagement and spring tension, but I am not a pro... Though I do believe it would be technically more than Schwartz.

Found the images I was looking for...

Schwartz - Notice what actuates the safety.




Series 80 - Notice what is needed to actuate the safety (Trigger)

I have both a Kimber and Series 80. There's hardly a noticeable trigger pull difference, maybe 1/2#. It's hard to tell because the frames are configured differently. The Kimber seems smoother but a little polishing or upgrade on parts can make the bigger difference (my Kimber has a nicer factory trigger). The only qualm I have with the Kimber vs Series 80 is the firing pin disconnect in the slide. Kimber sights are a pain to remove vs the Series 80 disconnect which isn't dependent on the rear sight.

[Rhyyke]

Thanks for all the info guys, but in the end Destiny made the decision for me.

I was browing used Colt's when out of the clear blue another Calgunner PM'ed me. He had seen my "WTB: Colt Special Combat Government" in my sig, and he had not one but TWO for me to select from, at an amazing price. The timing was perfect too, as I leave the country for a business trip tomorrow night. Needless to say we came to an agreement and today I met him and had my selection from two beautiful mint pieces... It felt decadent in an almost perverse way.

So here I am, 3.5 hours into a 240 hour wait. At least the trip will hopefully make the time go faster, I can't wait to get home!

[jonzer77]

I'm kicking around the idea of doing a new custom 1911 project, probably around the end of this year/early next. For my base gun I'm considering two options; a Kimber Custom II or a Colt XSE.

My question is regarding their firing pin safeties, which one (if either) will make the biggest impact on trigger pull? I AM NOT LOOKING FOR OPINIONS ON COLT VS KIMBER IN GENERAL. Just which one will make the better base gun for a custom project.

Thanks guys!

I don't know much about the kimber safety system but for $5, you can get rid of the series 80 safety on the Colt and convert it to a series 70. In fact, I take them out of all my series 80 guns since its pointless.

[jonzer77]

My original idea was to find a used XSE and do the following:

Match barrel/bushing
Blend magwell
Ambi thumb safety
Front strap checkering
Ball cut slide (maybe)
Bevel slide
Refinish

Basically a clone Colt Special Combat. But a blue XSE is hard to come by, the ones in the Classifieds are going for close to NIB price. So I started eyeing my Kimber Custom II...

http://grabagun.com/colt-govt-45acp-5-blue.html

They are still out there.

[LowThudd]

I don't know much about the kimber safety system but for $5, you can get rid of the series 80 safety on the Colt and convert it to a series 70. In fact, I take them out of all my series 80 guns since its pointless.

On a Kimber you just replace the firing pin with a series 70 pin and it defeats it. If you are going to be shooting a LOT of rounds, probably best to remove the excess parts. I'm keeping mine for now. Doesn't hurt anything as it isn't attached to the trigger.