Why do people delete the price when they have sold their pistol?

[meno377]

I saw your post in that thread and I'm not sure what you're talking about and I'm getting the sneaking suspicion you aren't either.

I compared off-roster guns to Cuban Cigars. What part of that makes you think any of what's discussed in this thread would result in off-roster guns not being expensive in California?

The only thing we talked about that's close to that, is that I said buyers and sellers having access to pricing information will allow them to more accurately price their guns. Accurate doesn't mean the same price as the rest of the country. This is still California.

"Overpriced" meaning correctly valued high prices for the California Market and "Overpriced" meaning priced higher than the market will bear, are two different things, and you're confusing the two. Look up equivocation.

Buyers and sellers don't have to accurately price their guns. The market does that for them. If the seller prices it too high, then he/she won't sell it until the price comes down.

You are over thinking this way too much. If the seller prices it too low, it will sell immediately. If the seller 2nd guesses on the price they posted at, that is on them. Other sellers will simply want to get rid of an item, so they will price it to move. It's really that simple.

[devious21]

Buyers and sellers don't have to accurately price their guns. The market does that for them. If the seller prices it too high, then he/she won't sell it until the price comes down.

That genuinely made me laugh. Of course, we don't have to do anything.

You conveniently left out the other half of that though. If a seller prices too high, sure he just wastes his own time until the price comes down. But if he prices it too low, he loses money.

Same with buyers attempting to understand what items are worth. There's a chance they will wait eternally and simply waste their time trying to buy an item that will never sell at the price they're looking for, or they will buy for more than the item was worth and waste their money.

I'm not claiming that inaccurate prices make it impossible for the market to function. It's obviously functioning. I'm saying it makes it harder to function efficiently, which equates to buyer's and seller's wasting time and money.

[meno377]

Yeah that's understandable. If people here don't care about fostering a positive community for each other, why should people give a sh*t. The quality of the classifieds and the information and threads are only as good as the people here are willing to make it. Some just want to reap the benefits, while slowly making it worse.

In my experience, most people I've met through shooting and shooting sports, are some of the nicest and most helpful people, and I've tried to return the favor whenever possible. It really is sad to then come on here, which is the biggest online community for gun owners unfortunate enough to live in this great state, and see people care so little and just use it as an opportunity to troll the other members.

"devious21", You may want to re read what you said here. Disagreeing with you about the issues here shouldn't be confused with the kind of people that Calguns represent. You are speaking about a community in a derogatory manner which IMO is unfortunate and shows a lack of respect. Yes there may be some individuals that respond in a immature fashion, but that doesn't speak for the community as a whole.

WTF?!?

Because I don't think that any of your arguments hold water -- and believe that leaving the asking price serves no useful purpose -- you use that as an indictment of my commitment to the CalGuns community, or my "helpfulness" in general? I just want to "reap the benefits" and make CalGuns worse? I'm just trolling?

Ok then...

Point taken.

[devious21]

"devious21", You may want to re read what you said here. Disagreeing with you about the issues here shouldn't be confused with the kind of people that Calguns represent. You are speaking about a community in a derogatory manner which IMO is unfortunate and shows a lack of respect. Yes there be some individuals that respond in a immature fashion, but that doesn't speak for the community as a whole.



Point taken.

Read my response to Joe. The same response applies to you. What I said should only offend you if you take it out of context. If you're having a civil discussion with me, it doesn't apply to you.

I re-read what I said and nothing in there was derogatory towards the community or showed a lack of respect for anyone who hasn't already shown the same to me. If you reading it as directed to you, then that's a mistake. Follow the quote history and you'll understand the context of that comment.

[meno377]

That genuinely made me laugh. Of course, we don't have to do anything.

You conveniently left out the other half of that though. If a seller prices too high, sure he just wastes his own time until the price comes down. But if he prices it too low, he loses money.

Same with buyers attempting to understand what items are worth. There's a chance they will wait eternally and simply waste their time trying to buy an item that will never sell at the price they're looking for, or they will buy for more than the item was worth and waste their money.

I'm not claiming that inaccurate prices make it impossible for the market to function. It's obviously functioning. I'm saying it makes it harder to function efficiently, which equates to buyer's and seller's wasting time and money.

As I said, if they price it too low, either they want the item to move quickly or they are uninformed. Either way that is their responsibility and only theirs.

[devious21]

As I said, if they price it too low, either they want the item to move quickly or they are uninformed. Either way that is their responsibility and only theirs.

Correct! We absolutely agree.

The first is by choice and the second is due to circumstance. What I'm saying is that access to information changes the circumstance.

You say the responsibility is theirs, but what does that mean? To go out and look for the information and inform themselves, right? But if it doesn't exist, what due diligence can they accomplish? That is the point of this entire thread, minus all the derailments.

Right now, the solution of having to become a thread rat and live in the classifieds to accurately price a gun, is less than efficient.

[meno377]

Correct! We absolutely agree.

The first is by choice and the second is due to circumstance. What I'm saying is that access to information changes the circumstance.

You say the responsibility is theirs, but what does that mean? To go out and look for the information and inform themselves, right? But if it doesn't exist, what due diligence can they accomplish? That is the point of this entire thread, minus all the derailments.

Right now, the solution of having to become a thread rat and live in the classifieds to accurately price a gun, is less than efficient.

The responsibility is theirs because it's their choice in both examples. If they sell it too cheap due to their being uninformed, then they didn't take the time to investigate what the current market is for that item. That is their responsibility. With the amount of information available today, they wouldn't need to take that much time to find out.

[devious21]

The responsibility is theirs because it's their choice in both examples. If they sell it to cheap due to their being uninformed, then they didn't take the time to investigate what the current market is for that item. That is their responsibility. With the amount of information available today, they wouldn't need to take that much time to find out.

See I'm almost positive you made this point earlier and I refuted it.

I asked you what sources they could go to, to find this information. You gave me a long list of sources that we cannot purchase off-roster guns from and have prices that are completely irrelevant to our marketplace. If you don't acknowledge me refuting that point, we will talk in circles.

So I challenge the point that it's easy to find this information and that there's plenty of it out there. I'm proposing that there's very little information outside of Calguns. That disconnect I believe, is where we disagree.

If you believe you are correct, list what sources you can get off-roster pricing from and explain why it's valid to our off-roster market?

[meno377]

See I'm almost positive you made this point earlier and I refuted it.

I asked you what sources they could go to find this information. You gave me a long list of sources that we cannot purchase off-roster guns from and have prices that are completely irrelevant to our marketplace. If you don't acknowledge me refuting that point, we will talk in circles.

So I challenge the point that it's easy to find this information and that there's plenty of it out there. I'm proposing that there's very little information outside of Calguns. That disconnect I believe, is where we disagree.

If you believe you are correct, list what sources you can get off-roster pricing from and explain why it's valid to our off-roster market?

Some of the sources I mentioned are in California. At the time I gave you those sources, there was no mention of off roster handguns being the main issue. At least I didn't know that. Either way you can still get the info needed, even for off roster. I have done it by using those sources along with my own ways of estimating the value of a given item.

[devious21]

Some of the sources I mentioned are in California. At the time I gave you those sources, there was no mention of off roster handguns being the main issue. At least I didn't know that. Either way you can still get the info needed, even for off rosters. I have done it by using those sources along with my own ways of estimating the value of a given item.

Sorry, I was positive I mentioned it a few times but it's there to go back and check. This whole discussion revolves around off-roster. There's a wealth of on-roster information out there, so that's definitely not an issue.

Even on those sites, the items that are listed IN California are not commonly for sale TO California. Look up used Gen 4 Glocks on GB. The market for off-roster is only as big as how far you can drive to twice. Pricing outside of that availability doesn't apply to you, since you are unable to purchase it.

I still put forth that those sites do not have reliable off-roster information. If you can show me a search or other way of getting any valuable information from them, the community would benefit from it. I don't believe you can though. I have no problem being proven wrong, though. So feel free to educate me if there's something you think I'm missing.

[meno377]

Sorry, I was positive I mentioned it a few times but it's there to go back and check. This whole discussion revolves around off-roster. There's a wealth of on-roster information out there, so that's definitely not an issue.

Even on those sites, the items that are listed IN California are not commonly for sale TO California. Look up used Gen 4 Glocks on GB. The market for off-roster is only as big as how far you can drive to twice. Pricing outside of that availability doesn't apply to you, since you are unable to purchase it.

I still put forth that those sites do not have reliable off-roster information. If you can show me a search or other way of getting any valuable information from them, the community would benefit from it. I don't believe you can though. I have no problem being proven wrong, though. So feel free to educate me if there's something you think I'm missing.

You're missing the way the market functions for this state. And there is no credible source that can be referenced to "off roster" handguns for the way the market works in California. When is comes to "off roster" it's an ever changing market just like the weather.

[devious21]

You're missing the way the market functions for this state. And their is no credible source that can be referenced to "off roster" handguns for the way the market works in California. When is comes to "off roster" it's an ever changing market just like the weather.

Ah see, now you're now shifting away from the point.

You say there's no credible sources. Is there anything even similarly credible to the asking prices of Calguns threads? Armslist is the exception I mentioned earlier which is like a poor man's (very poor) Calguns. I'm not asking for the end-all-be-all authority of pricing. Just any useful information as long as it's relevant to our market. If you can find similar information to that, where from?

You can easily say "nothing is good enough" and therefore there's no reason to look but I'd challenge that, that is a cop out.

[I Swan]

Some things never change for off list market especially after the end of SSE as we knew it. Like a gun such as an older Taurus auto generally nobody cares it it out of production and it will sell for same as would on Gunbroker.

Guns like a 10mm S&W have not been made since 1993 and 10mm handguns have a following. And I don't remember anyone SSEing 3rd gen Smith's. So that's where some sort of CA price info becomes helpful. Looking at GB completed auctions or blue book won't help price one in our current market.

Being as this is not an auction site listing a gun too high or too low can cause problems and time wastage I'd like to avoid.

[meno377]

Ah see, now you're now shifting away from the point.

You say there's no credible sources. Is there anything similarly credible to the asking prices of Calguns threads? Armslist is the exception I mentioned earlier which is like a poor man's (very poor) Calguns. I'm not asking for the end-all-be-all authority of pricing. Just any useful information as long as it's relevant to our market. If you can find similar information to that, where from?

You can easily say "nothing is good enough" and therefore there's no reason to look but I'd challenge that, that is a cop out.

No credible sources for "off roster" handguns in california to reference how the market works. That's my point. In addition to that I only figured out a few posts back that it was "off roster" you are speaking about.

As I answered before some of the info I gather doesn't come from an online or other external source.

Finally, you are looking for something in a society that supports and is based on Capitalism.

[devious21]

Some things never change for off list market especially after the end of SSE as we knew it. Like a gun such as an older Taurus auto generally nobody cares it it out of production and it will sell for same as would on Gunbroker.

Guns like a 10mm S&W have not been made since 1993 and 10mm handguns have a following. And I don't remember anyone SSEing 3rd gen Smith's. So that's where some sort of CA price info becomes helpful. Looking at GB completed auctions or blue book won't help price one in our current market.

Being as this is not an auction site listing a gun too high or too low can cause problems and time wastage I'd like to avoid.

I think the only other source of helpful information, would be if we found a goldmine of another place where lots of PPT sales were being offered and taking place.

I'm part of a dozen facebook groups that do trades and sales but they really don't fair any better. Sellers there seem even more afraid of undervaluing their items, so stuff just sits for long periods of time until prices drag down. lots of bickering among confused buyers that don't understand why prices are so high. And some are too high (compared to what stuff goes for here) but not as much as they believe.

This is the first year of buying and selling stuff blindly. Hopefully it gets better as we get further along or we get some better laws.