Question about grouping

[bombadillo]

OK, I have been shooting my ruger p345ptr for about 3 years or so now. I can honestly say I have been shooting less than when I first got it, but I swear I can't get any better with it. I can bench it and it seems to do all right, but I just don't have that great of luck with keeping a tight group anywhere past 25 feet or so. I can maybe get a 6" group @ 25 ft. shooting reloads 230 gr fmj. I've tried great ammo, cheap ammo, and it just doesn't get much better. What do you guys suggest with what I've got. It also seems to be shooting up and to the left by a little bit at around 45 feet or more. Anyway, just what do you all think I should do to tighten up the groups or get a bigger gun with a longer barrel, or any technique programs to try out via youtube or anything like that. I've got LEO buddies showing me proper stance, grip, technique, and it still isn't getting much better. I'm dead on with a rifle and they're not even all that accurate rifles so I know I have it in me, but this thing is just killing me.

[What Just Happened?]

Do you have a flinch when you shoot?

Something that I found helped a lot was a trigger job.

[bombadillo]

I honestly don't know. I don't feel like I really flinch or do anything as I expect a pretty big bang from a .45, but I don't think so. What would one do if I did?

[gmcal]

To check for any nasty flinches or other bad habits, load a snap in with live ammo when shooting. You'll get a click, see what happened to your sights. Did they stay on target? If you're not doing dry fire practice already, then I'd start. If you don't know what that is, let me know. I'll post some links to online videos by Bruce Gray, and another instructor (I can't remember his name right now.) I'd also have someone else shoot the gun to see if the same thing is happening.

[thempopresense]

I like that idea, gonna give that a try.

To check for any nasty flinches or other bad habits, load a snap in with live ammo when shooting. You'll get a click, see what happened to your sights. Did they stay on target? If you're not doing dry fire practice already, then I'd start. If you don't know what that is, let me know. I'll post some links to online videos by Bruce Gray, and another instructor (I can't remember his name right now.) I'd also have someone else shoot the gun to see if the same thing is happening.

[Satex]

Do you have the same problem with other pistols?
6" @ 25ft seems to be a shooter problem.

[smokingloon]

Sometimes we lost track of the basics such as proper breathing sight alignment, focusing on the front sight tip, etc. I would say that the next time you go to the range, make sure your basics are in good order.

[Mr. Meeseeks]

Hope this helps.

[M. D. Van Norman]

Three years, you say? Try giving it just a little more time, while focusing on the basics of sight alignment and trigger control. Three years was about how long it took me to see noticeable improvement.

[biko]

I started from no experience in August and with good instruction, I am shooting consistently 3 inch groups at 15 yds (still get the occasional flyer!). The feedback I felt that helped the most was:
- pulling up the slack in the trigger up to the trigger break
- not holding the trigger back after the shot, but immediately going to reset while maintaining your finger on the trigger
- not over gripping the pistol, particularly with the lower 2 fingers
- not over focusing on the target and anticipating the shot, focus on the front sight
- not immediately looking for the shot placement

For me, I also found I needed a consistent upper body for tight groups.

When all of the above "clicked" my shooting suddenly got decent. As one instructor said, one can get good at polishing crap!

Unless you are doing 50 yd pistol competition I don't think the pistol or the ammo will make a difference. You can't fix shooting problems with gear.

[redcliff]

Dry firing with snap caps will help you break a flinch, and/or shooting with a .22 pistol. Also wear ear muffs AND ear plugs.

After that it's all about trigger break and sight alignment, and keeping your focus ON the front sight. For serious target work I prefer serrated front sight blades, and I make sure I can see the serrations crisply.

[fairfaxjim]

As the chart shows, and some have said, work to prevent anticipating the recoil - snap caps help, also try using a revolver, load an empty chamber in the cylinder, spin it so you don't know which one it will be. Pay attention to where your sight picture ends up when you drop the hammer on the empty.

Follow through is important - don't stop aiming when the gun fires - keep your focus on the front sight and follow the shot down range like you are guiding it.

[bombadillo]

on an 8.5x11 sheet, how far out would you put the paper to figure out where you're actually shooting. If I put it @ 5 yards, I'm gonna tack it in a tight little group. Its only @ 25+ feet that it starts to open up.

[Butter]

Bomb,

Lots of good advice on this thread. As mentioned, get some snap caps. Then take a buddy with you to the range. Have your buddy load a couple of your mags and put a few snaps inside the mag at different intervals. Have him watch you, or better yet, get a video camera on you and see if you flinch or anticipate the next shot when shooting when the snap caps are chambered.

I'd also recommend taking a class and letting an instructor evaluate your shooting. This way you won't suffer from reinforcing bad habits and can go from there.

[trinydex]

how do you prevent breaking wrist up?