AR Pistol, forward grip and mag release

[CaliforniaSerf]

Hey guys,

I'm building an AR Pistol from an 80%. Can I legally put on an angled forward grip? I'm not planning on a Sig Brace at the moment.

And since it's a pistol, I don't need a bullet button. Just a normal button will be fine, correct?

Thanks guys.

[killemall419]

It needs a bullet button no matter what, due to it being a pistol with the magazine outside of the grip. I can't quote PC, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly for that. Edit: Found it.

[CaliforniaSerf]

It needs a bullet button no matter what, due to it being a pistol with the magazine outside of the grip. I can't quote PC, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly for that. Edit: Found it.

Perfect. Thanks.

Now, how about one of these?

[MrPlink]

AFG is fine because you must have a maglock.
Thus enjoy all the evil features you want

[esp1]

vertical grip is a no-no. not sure about afg. I wanna say its ok, but honestly I don't know.

[marksmandowntown]

vertical grip is a no-no. not sure about afg. I wanna say its ok, but honestly I don't know.

If you want to do a full-on forward grip, you can. It will cost $900 out the door and will take six months, and there is a chance that you will lose your money, non-refundable. I just did it successfully, PM me if you have money to burn and are serious.

The legality of AFGs is currently being debated. From a practical standpoint, everybody is doing it (they are all over the place), but I have read more than one legal opinion about them that made me uncomfortable, so I decided against using one.

That was when I decided to apply for a tax stamp so that I could put on a forward grip.

If you do decide to use a AFG, I believe but do not warrant that you will get away with it.* I say this because there are so many of them out there that your chances of being ground zero of prosecution are so low as to hardly be appreciable. Just make sure you don't act like a jerk when you have your AR pistol with you. You don't want a LEO looking for reasons to screw with you, as he will find one.

There is no escape from the bullet button, but the good news is that a really good one is available for the AR platform. I like the "Ultimate Bullet Button" because you can use your magazine as the tool to eject with.

*Note that when the question of my own tush came into play, I decided against taking the risk of using an AFG.

For any Calgunners who are wondering what the difference is, this is an Angled Forward Grip:


(Most people say this AFG is legal, I'm in the minority who are not sure.)

This one is a Forward Grip:


This one gets you into big trouble unless you have a tax stamp that makes it into an Any Other Weapon. There is no debate about this one.

[morthrane]

The legality of AFGs is currently being debated. From a practical standpoint, everybody is doing it (they are all over the place), but I have read more than one legal opinion about them that made me uncomfortable, so I decided against using one.

Are you conflating the gray area of an AFG in California for featureless rifle purposes? I don't have it handy but I was almost positive that the BATFE has released letters that consider the AFG as not being a VFG, and thus will not turn an AR pistol into an (illegal) AOW.

This one is a Forward Grip:


This one gets you into big trouble unless you have a tax stamp that makes it into an Any Other Weapon. There is no debate about this one.

Only if its under 26" OAL minus any muzzle devices. Over 26" OAL minus muzzle devices... not an AOW, assuming that it is never concealed. See Franklin Armory's XO-26.

Under or over 26" OAL, its still considered a pistol in California if the barrel is under 16".

[SkyHawk]

There was a guy here (Calguns member) who got busted in CA for AFG on AR pistol last year. They hit him with AW violation. I am not sure what happened because the thread was deleted shortly after it started in the interest of preserving his defense.

So yes, AFG can cause you problems. You know what they say about beating the rap but not the ride? I'm sure that AFG has cost him plenty by now. He may get off Scot Free except for a few grand lighter in the wallet. So yes, it is still a gray area - until we get some concrete resolution from at least one or a few test cases.

As we all know ATF has said AFG is legal, but CA DOJ and CA lawmakers go their own way on these things...

And yes for the love of everything holy, you absolutely need a bullet button - there is no question about that and not even sure how you'd think otherwise.

[supertrooper]

If you want to do a full-on forward grip, you can. It will cost $900 out the door and will take six months, and there is a chance that you will lose your money, non-refundable. I just did it successfully, PM me if you have money to burn and are serious.

The legality of AFGs is currently being debated. From a practical standpoint, everybody is doing it (they are all over the place), but I have read more than one legal opinion about them that made me uncomfortable, so I decided against using one.

That was when I decided to apply for a tax stamp so that I could put on a forward grip.

If you do decide to use a AFG, I believe but do not warrant that you will get away with it.* I say this because there are so many of them out there that your chances of being ground zero of prosecution are so low as to hardly be appreciable. Just make sure you don't act like a jerk when you have your AR pistol with you. You don't want a LEO looking for reasons to screw with you, as he will find one.

There is no escape from the bullet button, but the good news is that a really good one is available for the AR platform. I like the "Ultimate Bullet Button" because you can use your magazine as the tool to eject with.

*Note that when the question of my own tush came into play, I decided against taking the risk of using an AFG.

For any Calgunners who are wondering what the difference is, this is an Angled Forward Grip:


(Most people say this AFG is legal, I'm in the minority who are not sure.)

This one is a Forward Grip:


This one gets you into big trouble unless you have a tax stamp that makes it into an Any Other Weapon. There is no debate about this one.

Whats the chance a California cop is going to know what a aow tax stamp is.

[SkyHawk]

Whats the chance a California cop is going to know what a aow tax stamp is.

Point taken - but there is at least a fair chance. Some cops are issued automatic weapons for SHTF and they still need a stamp too, so it isn't completely foreign in departments. I know a deputy who kept at home a department issued Colt 9mm AR full auto and he had a stamp.

[ke6guj]

There was a guy here (Calguns member) who got busted in CA for AFG on AR pistol last year. They hit him with AW violation. I am not sure what happened because the thread was deleted shortly after it started in the interest of preserving his defense.

So yes, AFG can cause you problems. You know what they say about beating the rap but not the ride? I'm sure that AFG has cost him plenty by now. He may get off Scot Free except for a few grand lighter in the wallet. So yes, it is still a gray area - until we get some concrete resolution from at least one or a few test cases.

As we all know ATF has said AFG is legal, but CA DOJ and CA lawmakers go their own way on these things...

And yes for the love of everything holy, you absolutely need a bullet button - there is no question about that and not even sure how you'd think otherwise.

I am not familiar with that thread. not sure why someone in CA LE would think an AFG on an AR-pistol would make it an AW. An AFG is no more evil for CA pistol AW law than a barrel shroud, threaded barrel, or magazine well outside the pistol grip, all of which an AR-pistol already has. so, what is the difference between having 3 evil features and 4?

Point taken - but there is at least a fair chance. Some cops are issued automatic weapons for SHTF and they still need a stamp too, so it isn't completely foreign in departments. I know a deputy who kept at home a department issued Colt 9mm AR full auto and he had a stamp.

I seriously doubt he has a tax stamp if it is dept issued. LEAs are NFA tax-exempt and do not have to pay the tax. LEA guns are usually transferred on a Form 5 which has no tax stamp.

[marksmandowntown]

Whats the chance a California cop is going to know what a aow tax stamp is.

That's going to get me a lot further than "Dude, they said it was cool on Calguns..."

I don't know if you have ever seen one in person, they look pretty convincing, and I think would make the LEO think twice before he took it away and made me file papers to get it back.

As far as I know, everything Morthrane posted above about the OAL and barrel length is correct.

[Mr. Casull]

About a year ago I was in Turner's in Orange and they had an AR pistol in 223 with a forward grip on it. They said the barrel length made the difference. Not sure what the length of the barrel was, but thinking it was about 10".

[morthrane]

There was a guy here (Calguns member) who got busted in CA for AFG on AR pistol last year. They hit him with AW violation. I am not sure what happened because the thread was deleted shortly after it started in the interest of preserving his defense.

I am not familiar with that thread. not sure why someone in CA LE would think an AFG on an AR-pistol would make it an AW. An AFG is no more evil for CA pistol AW law than a barrel shroud, threaded barrel, or magazine well outside the pistol grip, all of which an AR-pistol already has. so, what is the difference between having 3 evil features and 4?

what ke6guj said. are you sure the guy who got the AW violation wasn't hit for something else? (dollars to donuts that the guy wasn't telling the whole story, and had a 30 round mag shoved in it, or "forgot" the bullet button, or didn't realize that rimfire pistols aren't AW exempt, or...)

[SkyHawk]

what ke6guj said. are you sure the guy who got the AW violation wasn't hit for something else? (dollars to donuts that the guy wasn't telling the whole story, and had a 30 round mag shoved in it, or "forgot" the bullet button, or didn't realize that rimfire pistols aren't AW exempt, or...)

I saw the thread with my own eyes, there was no ambiguity as to what he said. The thread was removed within 30 minutes. KE6GUJ can easily find out more since he is a mod. Ask Librarian or Kes. I'd love to hear a follow up if one ever came out.

And you are right about not getting the straight story in these matters, but at the time it seemed pretty straightforward what happened and I don't think the guy was a brand new member either. Hopefully someone can learn more and share without giving away anything.