Concealed carry holster question--Importance/significance of "cant"

[Citadelgrad87]

I recently got my CCW, so I recently became acutely aware of how uncomfortable the comfort of carrying a handgun can be.

For purposes of this discussion, I am trying to tolerably carry a 1911 commanding officers model, which is a 3.5" barrel on a full size frame, and a glock 27, the subcompact .40 model.

Mainly the 1911. I can make the glock work with what I learn here. So I think/thought I wanted a sparks VMII, based upon many recommendations. Through the kindness of a board member, I have a loaner copy/knock off to try out to see if it works for me. As luck would have it, I also purchased a used sparks Nexus, which is almost the same holster, except that the vmII has a reinforced mouth, 18 degree cant, while the nexus has no reinforced mouth, rides a tiny bit lower, and has a 25 degree can't.

Further complicating this is the new Criterion, which is a nexus with a reinforced mouth. So Id like a criterion or a VMII, and I'm trying to decide which will work for me.

I've been wearing both, and, frankly, both have the same issue. My pistol has a beavertail thst extends about 3/4 inch above the tab/sweat shield. This is uncomfortable, but not unbearable.

My plan is to order a sparks holster with an extended sweat shield to cover the beavertail, but I'm torn on which way to go.

I've never really worn a holster for very long before, and so far, I alternate these on weekends to try to pick a winner.

My question is, I understand what cant IS, but I think I'm unclear on what it's supposed to DO. I can conceal both holsters under a t shirt, or dress shirt, sweatshirt, etc. Wearing at 3, the cant doesn't SEEM to make a concealment difference. I can get a full draw grip with both holsters.

Anyone with more experience help me out before I make ANOTHER costly holster addition to the drawer of stuff that doesn't work for me?

Thanks.

[himurax13]

The Cant makes it easier to draw a pistol from the seated position.

A longer sweatshield will make things more comfortable but you need to make sure that your safety levers do not touch it when you are holstering or drawing the pistol.

[teflondog]

Cant makes it easier to draw when carrying behind the hip. It also places the butt of the grip more vertically so that it doesn't print as much.

[9mmepiphany]

How much cant you need will depend on your body type...how long your reach is and how much you have to reach around. A couple of things to keep in mind about the cant of a holster:

1. The further back, from the point of the hip, you wear a gun the more cant you'll need to keep the wrist as straight as possible.

2. The more cant built into a holster, the more you'll have to bend forward, at the hip, for the fastest draw

Balancing draw optimization is concealment. Cant is designed to rotate the holster so that the heel of the frame is more inline with the vertical axis of your body...so it doesn't stick out to the rear as much. That is why a shorter barrel, in an IWB holster, isn't as important as a shorter frame

[Citadelgrad87]

So since I wear at 3, and I'm, uh, let's say not skinny, neither the 15 nor the 18-20 prints at the rear, meaning in either holster, the butt doesn't extend to stick out at the rear





Does can't mean anything at all to me? Neither seems natural or unnatural to carry, conceal, or draw, because it's brand new to me.

Thanks.

Edit, looking at these photos, the weapon rides almost identically. I think the too one is the 20 degree, but the bottom one looks ever so slightly more canted.

[44fred]

[sofbak]

Before you spend the big bucks on a holster, I might suggest you try this

http://www.desantisholster.com/SOF-TUCK

The cant is widely adjustable via the screw that holds the belt clip, and for $30 some odd dollars, it will allow you to resolve the cant issue before you invest in the premium stuff.

[DannyInSoCal]

I carry a 3" double stack 1911 in a Galco Walkabout (with the buikt in extra mag holder) at 12:30/1:00.

Much more comfortable especially in the Jeep -

Easier draw access and retention.

Obviously apendix carry isnt for everyone -

But its what Ive decided works best for me...

[9mmepiphany]

So since I wear at 3, and I'm, uh, let's say not skinny, neither the 15 nor the 18-20 prints at the rear, meaning in either holster, the butt doesn't extend to stick out at the rear

I wouldn't personally call that 3 o'clock. It looks like it is a bit in front of the point of the hip...2:30?

Does can't mean anything at all to me? Neither seems natural or unnatural to carry, conceal, or draw, because it's brand new to me.

Then it come down to the comfort of the draw stroke.

I can't even imagine how much I'd have to roll my shoulder forward and how far I'd have to over-pronate my wrist to get a Master grip on the gun at that angle.

The rule of thumb is that as the gun is placed forward of the point of the hip, the cant should start being reversed...barrel angled forward of grip.

Might I suggest that you take some pictures of yourself with your hand on the gun in the holster. Note:

1. How far you're leaning forward
2. How you need to roll your shoulders
3. The angle of your wrist compared to your forearm while attaining the master grip on the gun

[Click Boom]

Cant also balances the gun fore to aft in the holster so that the holster isn't inclined to rotate towards the butt. A center of gravity thing. Though I am not sure if that is an initial design reason or a useful side-effect.

[SLO1911Fan]

With where you carry I actually wouldn't recommend either of the MS holsters you're looking at. At 3:00 I think you'll find that 10-15 degree cant will feel more natural and dig into your side less. If you're willing to move the holster back to 3:30 I would go with the MS VMII, the TT Gunleather Reinforced IWB, or the Mitch Rosen ARG. All those are extremely comfortable and stable rigs. Carrying between 3:00 and 3:30 I've really gotten to like the Andrews MacDaniel II with a body shield. It has adjustable cant, a metal band to hold the mouth of the holster open, and the sweat shield protects your "tactical padding" from getting stabbed all the time. I've been using one with a 4" bobtail kimber for almost a year and I love it. I have an entire box of holsters for the 1911, but I haven't used anything else in months.

[Click Boom]

for appendix carry I prefer no cant, I don't like pointing at the family jewels or the big artery in the thigh that will have you bled out in a few minutes.

[Sleighter]

That cant is pretty severe for a 3 0'clock carry. The closer to 3 I get the more I like little to no cant, because it allows for a more natural wrist position and easier draw. 20 degrees looks like it would be really hard on the wrist to draw from if needed.

[Loopwell]

Citadel87, i always enjoy reading your input in various threads.

You should try wearing the same holster in the most desired position for at least two weeks. If it's still uncomfortable, then adjust the position ( i moved from 2 oclock to 4 oclock). I found 4 oclock much more comfortable, but i was on my 3rd holster (iwb galco comfort tuck or something). You will go through different holsters. Also, your body does have to physically get used to carrying something foreign for long periods of time. The first month or so i had very minor bruising, little areas of tenderness from wearing the holster and gun. After a while, like 6 months, i dont feel a thing, its very natural.

Recently, i started carrying appendix style at 1230. Its fine when i stand up, but sitting down can be a real pain (literally) on my pelvic bone and junk. I'm constantly reminded of when i first started carrying several years ago. The tenderness is still there.

Im doing this on my phone so im sure i left out more.

[caliberetta]

We each haven't different body types and preferences so what will work for one will not always work for the other.

With that said, this seems to work for me well: For my 1911, I use the Remora Holster. This 1911 of mine requires me to do more adjusting due to beavertail, hammer, longer grip and weight compared to my other compact guns. The Remora Holster gives me the flexibility to move it around slightly depending on whether I'm standing, sitting (depending also on the kind of SEAT), walking or what I'm wearing (more concealable/less concealable)... with it I can adjust Cant, Ride Height and Horizontal position on my waist whenever I want to. No such holster provides me the flexibility I need to comfortably this gun at all times.

Anyway, here is what my 1911 looks like on me, with jeans and t-shirt.



As you can see I like a low ride height, conceals it well and does not dig into my side too much. The lower ride height also allows me to naturally Draw the pistol from a steep Cant position... the steep Cant does a good job of keeping the butt of the gun away from the rear of my shirt.

That's what works for me. Hope that helps, Good luck.