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CCW training in Sacramento *important*

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  • Mstrty
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 2443

    CCW training in Sacramento *important*

    CCW training in Sacramento by a security academy (the one close to River City Guns) leaves a lot to be desired. The head instructor spent the first moments telling his class to visit the CADOJ website. He instructed his students to read and keep up to date on changes. This is where the training stopped. I would argue that he has not read the FAQ’s on that site in the last 15 years. The level of incorrect information spewing from his lips became intolerable. More than 50% of the class is spent listening to him pound his chest about what a great special ops guy he is. Shortly after class began I started to jot down incorrect information. Some of which potentially creates felony’s for his students. He did not allow for any questions till the class was over (6:45pm), so the 20-23 year old students just mopped up every word he uttered. I thought I would take the time to type up some of the incorrect information he taught in hopes that some guard who might read this can get more accurate information.

    1. Possession of a magazine in California that can accept more than 10 rounds is a Felony. (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))

    2. Registration is required for all handguns. Handguns imported be new residents prior to 1998 were not required to be registered. (Penal Code 12072(f)(2)) and sales using an FFL were not required until January 1, 1991. Prior to that date an individual could sell to another individual without using a dealer, and there are probably several million firearms in California which have not changed hands since 1990.

    3. No caliber less than .380 may be put on a California CCW license. I have no idea from which he dreamt this one up.

    4. The question was asked to the class. What cartridge does the 1911 shoot? I responded the 45ACP He said what does that stand for? I replied Automatic Colt Pistol. He said wrong… Its .45 Auto Pistol Cartridge. I just lowered my head and wrote this FUD down. I couldn’t believe it myself.

    5. This one was on brandishing PC417. He stated he was in the Sac Sheriff’s office last week and that there 3 CCW holders there crying about losing their permits due to the fact that there shirts had revealed their gun while reaching for product from a top shelf in a store. When I finally questioned him he cut me off and informed me it wasn’t a “State law” it was a “Business law”. Again I just lowered my head and keep taking notes.

    6. CCW holders will be forced to drug test after any encounter with law enforcement.

    7. It’s illegal to shoot a person with a gun that is not on your permit.

    8. Glocks left in the trunk of your car in a Phoenix AZ summer will melt and become inoperable. His Sig can survive a fire and still operate properly. (clearly anti Glock)

    9. Bullets must be in a separate compartment from gun. You cannot legally put your bullets and your firearm in the trunk of your car.

    10. Firearm parts may not be in the glove box.

    11. Cable lock through the barrel creates compliance with “locked container”. No need to put a separate lock on your gun case.

    12. 1 gun a month starts at pickup of gun not at time of DROS.

    13. Gun locked in container with a single bullet hidden under the foam creates a Felony in California.

    He also bragged about how he loans guns out to students for months at a time. He doesnt want one of his students to be without a job simply because they dont have a job. I guess the 30 day loan a gun part doesnt apply to Special Ops guys.
    12078PC covers the "infrequent loan" of firearm(s).
    He stated that all you need is a letter which includes the duration of the loan and you are good to go to loan out a gun for as long as is necessary.

    There was others but is was the way he phrased the sentence not the content of the sentence. I survived the constant and repeated sweeping of the guns at the students. He consistently used real guns to demonstrate shooting in the class. At one time he put a gun to his sons back and click click click with the gun.
    Again I posted this so that you that are looking for training understand the level of training you will get. And for the Guards that go through this class. Read the CalDOJ website and make yourself familiar with California gun law before you rely on this instructor for legal advice.
    Never once did he mention “Never point any gun at something your not willing to destroy” I guess he was just too cool for that rule.
    Last edited by Mstrty; 10-26-2010, 12:25 AM.
    ~ ~
  • #2
    thebronze
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2007
    • 968

    I'm so glad I didn't go to that lame place...

    Don't reinforce bad behavior/bad "instruction". Don't give your money to these clowns.
    Retired Mil & former Copper

    Semper Fi!

    sigpic

    Comment

    • #3
      Bizcuits
      In Memoriam
      • Aug 2006
      • 6957

      Jim can leave a lot to be desired when he talks about laws and procedures, but that's why you gotta love him. Others have pointed it out, but he continues to teach what he does. He preaches safety, not gray areas. The caliber of your average Security guard is about a step above or below your average fry boy. Attempting to point out gray area's or otherwise is near impossible (and open's doors for liability), so he puts heavy emphasis on stupidity and exaggerates extremes, so moron's one blow to the head shy of being legally retarded don't take their gun out and play John Wayne. He tries to point out (and often doesn't do very well) is that one cop with a bad day will ruin your life. In other words don't give them a reason.

      I do believe it is an absolute disservice however that he is combining the CCW and Guard Firearms classes. He isn't in the business of offering tactical training or legal analyze, he is in the business of cranking out security guards. Take his class for what it is worth, a cheap 16 hours of instruction, so you can get your CCW and a place that'll keep your records on file for free in the event you lose your copies, as well as let you re-qual for free if you can shoot a 250.


      In addition:
      To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
      Last edited by Bizcuits; 10-26-2010, 6:34 PM.
      Owner of Patriot Apparel - Decals, Vintage Signs, Apparel and More!
      Ebay Store Link
      Etsy Store Link

      Comment

      • #4
        Mstrty
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 2443

        Originally posted by Bizcuits
        In addition:
        To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
        I agree his mission is to crank out Guards as fast as he can. What I dont understand was the "Im a Green Beret" every moment in his class. It was as a "would you believe me please" moment. Im there to learn about firearm safety not how decorated he is. I do no deny his level of service. I just disagree with his tactics and his insecurity that we were not buying what he was selling. He repeatedly said "If you dont believe me you could Google this or look at this". Really? Thats why Im here?
        Was he a green beret. Absolutely. Does that have anything to do with firearm safety for a CCW licence? None what so ever.
        People that read this, take what I am saying as information only. You need to decide what level of training you are going to take.

        This CCW class will not teach you how to operate a firearm safely, It will not teach you where you can or cannot carry your weapon. It will not teach you firearm law. It will not teach you how to interact with law enforcement if you encounter one. It will teach you that in California you are required by law to inform the officer that you are carrying a weapon.(im still looking for that law.) It will not teach you.
        1) The gun is always loaded
        2) Do not put your finger on the trigger till you are ready to fire.
        3) Know your target and what is behind it.
        4) Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.

        I cant tell you how many times I watched hip sweep students and even his son. He pulled the trigger at his son 3 times in the back with a real gun. Really? that blue gun on your table just not dramatic enough for you?

        This is just an FYI. I guess you all understand my opinion with this type of training. Make up you own mind what type of training you demand.
        ~ ~

        Comment

        • #5
          negolien
          Veteran Member
          • Sep 2010
          • 4829

          I think he's pretty good at what he does and knows exactly what he's doing /shrug sorry you didn't get what you thought you were going to.
          "Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

          George Orwell

          http://www.AnySoldier.com

          Comment

          • #6
            jcardona1
            Member
            • Dec 2007
            • 182

            Thanks for the info. This will come in handy as I'm just starting my CCW process. Is there a thread somewhere on this site of recommended places to attend training? I wouldn't mind paying a little more if I receive valuable/accurate training/information.

            Comment

            • #7
              Mstrty
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 2443

              Originally posted by negolien
              I think he's pretty good at what he does and knows exactly what he's doing /shrug sorry you didn't get what you thought you were going to.
              Dont be sorry for me, Im safe and knowledgeable in firearm law. As a Certified Range Safety officer, I feel sorry for all the information that could of been taught to the kids in the class. Its unfortunate that kids leaving this class will think that have enough knowledge to strap on a gun to protect themselves. I hope for their sake they all continue to seek training.
              ~ ~

              Comment

              • #8
                Bizcuits
                In Memoriam
                • Aug 2006
                • 6957

                I understand your dissatisfaction completely. I just know that his teaching is what's expected from "Security" schools. He is in fact one of the better ones. For me, he is an easy way to get what I want, not a way to "learn". It's like signing up for a college course and picking the easy professor rather then the better one. The reality is there are a lot better CCW courses out there, hands down. Hell if I had the money and time I'd be taking classes through Tactical Response or a real CCW instructor. I don't though and will instead take the easy route, with a school that'll keep my records on file.
                Owner of Patriot Apparel - Decals, Vintage Signs, Apparel and More!
                Ebay Store Link
                Etsy Store Link

                Comment

                • #9
                  harbinger007
                  CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 565

                  Originally posted by jcardona1
                  Thanks for the info. This will come in handy as I'm just starting my CCW process. Is there a thread somewhere on this site of recommended places to attend training? I wouldn't mind paying a little more if I receive valuable/accurate training/information.
                  Some places are listed in this post in the Sacramento CCW thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352779


                  I don't see how some can say that he knows what he's teaching when it's clearly demonstrated that he's giving out quite a bit of false information.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    derek@thepackingrat.net
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 515

                    Thanks for writing down all the misinformation. I attempted to recall everything he said following class, but I was primarily busy just nodding my head and biting my lip.

                    There was also that one small bit where an M1 Garand has 10 rounds in a clip .
                    Last edited by derek@thepackingrat.net; 10-29-2010, 2:41 AM.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      ishoot2live
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 3

                      M1 Garand

                      Originally posted by derek@thepackingrat.net
                      Thanks for writing down all the misinformation. I attempted to recall everything he said following class, but I was primarily busy just nodding my head and biting my lip.

                      There was also that one small bit where an M1 Garand has 10 rounds in a clip .
                      The M1 Garand holds eight rounds in a clip.

                      Be Safe.


                      Joseph Nizzari
                      Director of Training Operations
                      Line of Fire, LLC
                      Professional Firearms Training Group
                      Small Arms Training Division
                      Las Vegas , Nevada
                      (702) 242-8288 (o)
                      A Good Liar Covers Up His Lies With Lies...

                      A Bad Liar Covers Up His Lies By Blaming The Truth

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        derek@thepackingrat.net
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 515

                        8 rounds. That's correct.

                        The instructor for this class either mispoke or did not know; it was only an addititonal example why this class is either a means to an end or a way to get you in to trouble should one take the information without a second glance.

                        Cheers

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          CSDGuy
                          Veteran Member
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 3763

                          The Garand, if chambered in .276 Pedersen, would have held 10 rounds.

                          Sometimes, you just have to sit in class, knowing it's a means to an end...

                          Grin & Nod. Grin & Nod. Pass class. Move on.
                          Last edited by CSDGuy; 10-29-2010, 7:16 PM.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            thebronze
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 968

                            I took my CCW Training with Ron Etchells yesterday, along with a couple other CalGunners, at Sacto Valley.

                            It was a great class and we only got rained on, a little. There was about 10 of us there for the class and a couple pick-ups.

                            The class was $175, which is a little more expensive than the other classes, but you make that up with free re-quals for life and you can attend any of his other classes (shotgun/rifle/pisol) for free also.

                            Considering the other training that's out there (like the absolute abortion that Bombmaster went to), I'd highly recommend Ron's class.

                            I doubt you'll be disappointed.
                            Retired Mil & former Copper

                            Semper Fi!

                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              BobB35
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 782

                              Originally posted by Bizcuits
                              Jim can leave a lot to be desired when he talks about laws and procedures, but that's why you gotta love him. Others have pointed it out, but he continues to teach what he does. He preaches safety, not gray areas. The caliber of your average Security guard is about a step above or below your average fry boy. Attempting to point out gray area's or otherwise is near impossible (and open's doors for liability), so he puts heavy emphasis on stupidity and exaggerates extremes, so moron's one blow to the head shy of being legally retarded don't take their gun out and play John Wayne. He tries to point out (and often doesn't do very well) is that one cop with a bad day will ruin your life. In other words don't give them a reason.

                              I do believe it is an absolute disservice however that he is combining the CCW and Guard Firearms classes. He isn't in the business of offering tactical training or legal analyze, he is in the business of cranking out security guards. Take his class for what it is worth, a cheap 16 hours of instruction, so you can get your CCW and a place that'll keep your records on file for free in the event you lose your copies, as well as let you re-qual for free if you can shoot a 250.


                              In addition:
                              To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
                              Having a relative involved in the state sanctioned murder of an innocent housewife and the wounding of a couple of other people which ended up costing the taxpayers well over 10 million dollars in jury penalties and legal fees is not a glowing endorsement. In fact, it kind of fits with the fact that this guy kind of seems like a jack-wagon. Disclaimer...just going by what I read, I've never been to his class or me the man.

                              Comment

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