CCW scenario question

[RandyRhoads]

My CCW class seemed to be geared more towards shoot first ask later, and I wanted some opinions on a scenario from more than one person.


You're out and someone, lets say a drunk, an idiot, punk, or someone just having a bad day, starts the trash talk. You try to walk away but they continue it, and pursue you. They are unarmed, but start threatening to kick the crap out of you stomp your head in etc. They are advancing. But they don't have a weapon.

According to one of the instructors I asked, draw and say stop. If they continue, shoot.

Is that really going to be justifiable homicide?


Weather it is or isn't, to complicate it further say he looks like someone you feel confident you could stop without involving a firearm or death. Do you try to stop him without drawing? I'd rather not kill someone who's just drunk and having a bad day if I can just lay them out but- If you get into a scuffle rolling match now you have a weapon he can grab and use against you.

What would you do?

[Corbon91]

Is it a man or a woman? Are you a man or a woman? Is he/she bigger and stronger than you?

[LBDamned]

never assume the other guy isn't dangerous... here's a recent incident (oddly, Obama was too busy commenting on the MO/Ferguson incident to pay attention to the fact that "unarmed" doesn't mean not a threat as noted in this case)

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/deputy-632094-lakewood-estrada.html

[RandyRhoads]

Corbon. that is the question really. if he's bigger than me and looks like he could beat the crap out of me obviously I consider him a big threat whether he's arms or not.

I'd anderstand he doesn't have to be farms to be dangerous and press to someone's life.

but in the instance that it's a smaller person and not a huge threat to you without a firearm, if you try to handle it without your firearm then you run the risk of him taking yours and using it against you.

.save the dude is tiny and I'm really confident in being able to handle it without my firearm next thing you know we're rolling around on the ground. leave somebody very full horrible to having to strip of them and used against them.

[The Last American Hero]

Last time I was confronted with a problematic person they pulled a knife only after closing to within less than 3ft.

Whether you are Guilty In The Eyes Of US Govt/Press will depend entirely on your and other person's race as we saw in Zimmerman/Trayvon shooting.

[Mauserguy]

Ask Brian Stow how fighting an "unarmed" man went. Stow ended up with major brain damage and will never be normal again.

Also, how do you know that the attacker is unarmed? You will never really know for sure until they've stabbed you.

Having said the above, I personally really don't want to take a life, so I would be very reluctant to pull a trigger. My plan is to if at all possible run or jump over a fence or something. Shooting, for me, is only a last resort.
Mauserguy

[Gun Kraft]

Justifiable use of lethal force (in any form, including "simple" presentation) very much depends on the specific incident. It all depends. Factors to consider:

• Do they appear armed?
• Besides verbal threats, are they making overt gestures?
• Are there any witnesses in the area?
• Do they appear physically stronger or weaker than you?
• What is your level of unarmed training and experience?
• Can you retreat to a safer place?
• Can you call (or ask someone else to call) 911?

These are just some of the questions that could come into play, and the answer to each may modify your response. It's also good you're asking for other opinions, but you also need to consider the source--some opinions may be more appropriate than others.

For what it's worth, here's my suggestion: hold your hands up, palms out in a conciliatory non-threatening manner. Verbally try to defuse the situation to calm the guy down. Look to see if any witnesses are present and if so ask them to call 911 saying you need help. If there are no witnesses and the opportunity exists, call 911 yourself. Keep avenues of retreat open and try to maintain your distance.

Unless you're on the ground and multiple kicks are raining down on your head, it will be a very gray area regarding justifiable homicide because you were armed and they were not.

[autoduel]

Pepper spray him.
Or run.

[RandyRhoads]

Thank you for the responses.

to do not want to take a life unless I have to. there have been several times in my life where some drunk guy or even a friend has tried to fight me running to kill me in advance on me.

a couple times I've received an apology later it was just the alcohol. hate to a kill somebody you over stupid drinking mistake or having a bad day.

maybe this is more of a personal choice question.

you've told him you don't want to fight you put your hands up and try to disarm the situation but can't. ..not a big scary guy. .he's advancing on you threatening to kill you but has no weapon that you can see. Do you shoot? Or try to handle it without drawing and hope you don't end up with a black eye, or worse, match where he could possibly take your firearm?

[Lineman101]

I would add that not all discharges result in a fatality. But, like my instructor said, will 12 people see it the same way as you did? I would only resort to my firearm if imminent grave danger exists to me or my family. I think the operative word is grave. Which means grave-yard dead...

And I think that some may think that discharging a firearm will stop an attacker. We have seen lately that it may not. You may still find yourself in a shootout or something else...

[RandyRhoads]

Wrestling match*

looks can be very deceiving. I've trained in muay thai gyms where the skinny dude with glasses takes off his nerdy sweater gets in the ring and scares the s*** out of you with what he can do. Never under estimate someone comes in to play.

[RandyRhoads]

Less than lethal pepper spray is a good idea. maybe I can hit him with my purse too. just kidding that is a good idea to add

[dave3223]

Last time I was confronted with a problematic person they pulled a knife only after closing to within less than 3ft.

Whether you are Guilty In The Eyes Of US Govt/Press will depend entirely on your and other person's race as we saw in Zimmerman/Trayvon shooting.

WTF??? Really??? Sorry, but in response to the OPs question, your answer in bold makes very little sense and simply appears personal and a bit wacky. If you truly believe what you wrote and this is your advice to the OP, then I guess he should make sure that he has an encounter with a black kid and all will end well in the end, I guess.

To the OP, my OPINION is that each situation will be judged entirely upon itself based on the responding officer and circumstances at hand. Whereas the determination of fear in itself will be based on what you believe, things will ultimately be decided in a Court of law either for the civil matter (which will likely come) or the criminal case (which MAY occur depending on factors at the time). As stated before, I would attempt to de-escalate the situation first before brandishing a weapon and use verbal commands to attempt to stop any escalation of violence from occurring. Ultimately, the end result will be based on factors that one can not "guess" about. Again, this is just my opinion, however.

[RandyRhoads]

could have had it from the start I know this is going to be very situational dependent and none of this is legal advice I'm just looking for opinions. it will be very case dependent with many factors but given the information provided what would your decision be

[Doheny]

CCW scenario question

You'd be sunk if you shot the guy as you describe, OP.

You don't use a gun to stop a fight. "I thought he'd grab my gun" isn't a reason to shoot someone. Everyone who CCW's needs to be prepared to run or be able to go hands on to avoid a shooting. I don't mean not standing your ground when the situation dictates, rather the iffy situations as described above.

.