Taser carry

[BC9696]

As I expand my SD training and learn from digital scenarios, I have come to believe that being equipped with less lethal and non lethal defense weapons and hand-to-hand coaching is vital. Having more options in any situation seems empowering to me. Lethal force is completely inappropriate for situations involving a group of people beating someone mercilessly (which we've seen recently). My heavy EDC includes a sidearm with extra mags, SureFire Stiletto flashlight, tactical pen, Tarani karambit, and pepper gel spray. These items travel with me in the vehicle but not always on my person...depending on where I'm going and what I'm doing. I only carry heavy when forced to travel to a place like LA with family for an event...not so much in So. OC. But I am mulling the advantages and disadvantages of tasers. I ping pong back and forth and am seeking some "experienced" wisdom here. Perhaps from someone who has undertaken training with one and/or chose to abandon it as a weapon. For me, I'm 65yrs old and am no longer the imposing figure I was in my younger days. Despite this...I could not (in good conscience) ignore someone being brutalized by a mob...much less shoot video of it like so many others. We are our brother's keeper and my dad taught me it is never wrong to do the right thing. So yeah...I'd foolishly jump into the fray out of a sense of obligation and am looking for ways emerge intact without doing more harm than good. Societal decay is expanding at a frightening rate and scenes like this physically sicken me.

I appreciate any sagacious taser advice offered. Thank you.

PS: If there are other alternatives I am unaware of...please enlighten me. Horns and the like seem silly to me but I'm open to any good ideas.

[P5Ret]

If I were you I'd look long and hard at how effective they are in real life, not company propaganda. When they work they work well, but the failure rate is much higher than the company states. The other thing to consider is when they are used by LE there are more often than not multiple officers and lethal is available if the taser fails. An option you'll probably not have should things go sideways. For me there are way too many variables involved with tasers for me to trust one with my life or a loved one. I've got way too many old injuries to be fast enough to transition from a taser with someone inside the max range of a taser when it doesn't work.

[BC9696]

Just to clarify, I am seeking all available in formation from those familiar with tasers and I don't necessarily mean the guns. I'm thinking a small hand-held model makes more sense...especially if pulling a mob off a single victim. The idea is to intervene without "brandishing" a deadly weapon and protecting someone from an assailant or assailants effectively. A can of bear spray can be effective depending on conditions. Is a taser a worthwhile tool for self defense or are they more problematic?

[PeteH]

In the given situation the problem is you have one tazer shot and there are multiple assailants. I'm retired now, but our UOF was you should have lethal force backup if you decide to use a tazer, and our tazers had 2 shots without reload. So a big can of pepper spray would make a lot more sense. If the crowd turns on you-be prepared to use lethal force and be able to justfy it. You're old and slow, they knocked you to the ground and stared kicking at your head when you're down-yes then you fear for your life. I do agree that I would not stand by and watch while someone is beng beat to death.

[P5Ret]

I think you need to clarify what exactly you're asking about. Taser is a specific branded product that delivers a charge through two expelled barbs connected to unit by thin wires.

Stun guns as we used to call them way back when deliver a similar charge but are contact only, and rarely incapacitate. You may change someone's mind with one, or you may change their focus on to you. We were issued those I want to say mid 80's they turned out to be a bigger problem than a problem solver. I don't think they lasted a year before they ended up at the bottom of most lockers. Mine went off my belt after a bar fight in a biker bar, where it didn't do squat to the guy I hit with it, but on the plus side I did get some free dental work,

[DJD100]

I carry one when in CCW restricted places, plus OC Gel, and that's as good as it gets for civilians here in PROK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

[L-2]

Note, my department had never ok'd or trained us in the Taser products, which are a "less-than-lethal" weapon.

Generally, as somebody else here mentioned, less-than-lethal was to be used with at least one other partner deploying lethal force as a backup. Otherwise, some form of lethal force would be the weapon.

For "LESS LETHAL aka less than lethal", other than hands-on (fighting/combat) pepper spray was a good option. Although training is recommended, it generally can be bought by any adult and generally carried nationwide with some restrictions (e.g. aircraft, or probably places subject to search/metal detectors/specific places/buildings within a locales laws).

With that said, I understand the Taser products are generally legal to buy with little to no training required.
https://taser.com/pages/california?srsltid=AfmBOoonj1NUa4NvH2si7ldGpwnXP_S MuJMhHeSHPFY_o7S_S1_zeA4g

I don't know quite understand the civilian legalities if a Taser is used, but guessing if lethal would be ok, but one's choice to use less-than-lethal is used instead, it may be ok, but what if the subject does die? I think a person would need to get his/her articulation down as to how you could have merely used lethal force, but decided or only had the less-than-lethal option, either at hand, or to possibly give the bad guy a better chance of not dying, but he/she died anyway.

If you said you didn't mean to kill the bad guy, but he/she died anyway, then I think you may be admitting to at least manslaughter. Please consult an attorney or someone other than me.

[Notpc]

Well, there is these guys with their non-lethal pistols and rifles.

https://byrna.com/

[ptmn]

We issued Tasers, but to deploy them in most situations, it required another officer to provide lethal cover. When they work, they work great. When they fail, they fail miserably. We had a situation where 40mm less lethal failed, but the Taser dropped the suspect. We also had a situation opposite where Taser failed, but 40mm was effective.

Tasers require a proper spread, proper placement of the barbs, proper knowledge of when and when not to deploy (age, vehicles, height, physical conditions, clothing, etc). In other words, they require training. Those decisions require time, which you may not have when you are alone in an immediate self defense situation. As a cop, usually the situation has slowed to a stand off where the sergeant or corporal can evaluate the feasibility of Taser deployment and direct a proper plan.

Many will poo poo my comment about requiring training because they saw several situations where an untrained person effectively deployed one. I'll mimic John Correa and say success is a heck of a deodorant. On the other hand, when the situation goes south due to improper deployment, it stinks bad.

If I were in the OP's shoes, I would carry a high quality pepper spray instead of a bulky Taser.

As for stun guns, I wouldn't waste my time. There's no stand off and there's no incapacitation due to minimal spread. They are basically just pain compliance devices, much like a Taser being used in the drive stun mode instead of firing the cartridges.

[mossy]

lMy heavy EDC includes a sidearm with extra mags, SureFire Stiletto flashlight, tactical pen, Tarani karambit, and pepper gel spray.

What are you Batman? Tasers don't make sense out of a law enforcement setting. Any sort of heavy clothing will prevent the probes from making contact and you really should have lethal cover or other options to immediately deploy. When someone is shot with a Taser and it doesn't work they resist even harder. The advantage a taser has is to hopefully put a suspect on the ground long enough for other officers to jump on them and apply restraints.

[BC9696]

Note, my department had never ok'd or trained us in the Taser products, which are a "less-than-lethal" weapon.

Generally, as somebody else here mentioned, less-than-lethal was to be used with at least one other partner deploying lethal force as a backup. Otherwise, some form of lethal force would be the weapon.

For "LESS LETHAL aka less than lethal", other than hands-on (fighting/combat) pepper spray was a good option. Although training is recommended, it generally can be bought by any adult and generally carried nationwide with some restrictions (e.g. aircraft, or probably places subject to search/metal detectors/specific places/buildings within a locales laws).

With that said, I understand the Taser products are generally legal to buy with little to no training required.
https://taser.com/pages/california?srsltid=AfmBOoonj1NUa4NvH2si7ldGpwnXP_S MuJMhHeSHPFY_o7S_S1_zeA4g

I don't know quite understand the civilian legalities if a Taser is used, but guessing if lethal would be ok, but one's choice to use less-than-lethal is used instead, it may be ok, but what if the subject does die? I think a person would need to get his/her articulation down as to how you could have merely used lethal force, but decided or only had the less-than-lethal option, either at hand, or to possibly give the bad guy a better chance of not dying, but he/she died anyway.

If you said you didn't mean to kill the bad guy, but he/she died anyway, then I think you may be admitting to at least manslaughter. Please consult an attorney or someone other than me.

Kinda what I was thinking too...taking hand-to-hand and carry Pepper Gel Spray and will stick with that. If a guy wearing a red cap is being pummeled by a mob, I wanna help. Biggest concern nowadays is the surprise road-rager which appears to be spreading like Covid. Thanks all.

[XDJYo]

Taser is a no-go. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground of effectiveness.
Pepper spray is a better tool, but not foolproof.
Handgun is similar, but better at getting the crowd to scatter.

Your scenario of a group beatdown, is to leave an area full of the fatiguer class.

Two people you should keep in mind, Trayvon Martin and Daniel Penny.

But, to be honest, I'm not sure what I would do.

[turbolarry]

...I'm 65yrs old and am no longer the imposing figure I was in my younger days.
...I could not (in good conscience) ignore someone being [victimized].
...I'd foolishly jump into the fray... and am looking for ways emerge intact without doing more harm than good.

I'm gonna say; Keep yourself in shape.
Worst case scenario; you can't use lethal force, the taser didn't work, the pepper spray blew way left because of the wind, and all your other tools fell out of your pockets running. Like you said, you're not the person from your younger days but you chose to get involved. So.... now what?
You're about to take an *** beating, that's what. I've known lots of dudes and a few females that will not hesitate to whoop an old man's *** for getting in their way.
I'm not criticizing your age because I'm not far behind you. I'm no spring chicken either. I don't think you have to be the "imposing figure" you use to be but can you last one minute? You might just have to bear hug someone until more help arrives, you might have to dance with motherf#(ker and trade a few blows, you might end up on the ground and wrestling. What kind of shape are you in? How's your cardio? Can you lift and carry weights?
Having tools for use of force is nice, but don't count on them. The necessary force may end up deescalating to just physical strength and holds.
Are you keeping yourself in shape? Because even if you win the fight, at our age, the next day is still going to feel like an *** beating. Hopefully by being in shape, it shouldn't be as bad as it could.