Renewal training = 16 or 8 hours?

[mk2dave]

I know a recent bill changed the number of hours of training hours from 8 to 16 for the initial and 4 to 8 hours for renewals.

I recently heard EVERYONE has to go through the 16 hour training once , and then it deverts to the 8 hour.

Anyone know if this is right? FUD?

[mitch1]

8 hours, just renewed mine in Riverside County

[Preston-CLB]

mk2dave, I think where this coming from is I have heard that some instructors are using the first 8 hours of a 16 hour class for renewals with the qualification shoot done early on in the class.

mitch 1 is correct, the renewal is 8 hours and includes the now mandated qualification shoot.
-P

[Mute]

Renewal is 8 hours. First application is 16 hours.

[Lady Ruger]

mk2dave, I think where this coming from is I have heard that some instructors are using the first 8 hours of a 16 hour class for renewals with the qualification shoot done early on in the class.

mitch 1 is correct, the renewal is 8 hours and includes the now mandated qualification shoot.
-P

That makes no sense at all.

[Dvrjon]

"I recently heard...". always scares me. From whom and when?

The statute says, "no less than" 16 hours for initial and 8 hours for renewal. Source: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum= 26165.

However, I've not seen any training organization scheduling more 16/8 hrs for these activities.

[Dvrjon]

mk2dave, I think where this coming from is I have heard that some instructors are using the first 8 hours of a 16 hour class for renewals with the qualification shoot done early on in the class.

I agree with Lady R. The intial training requires:

The course shall include instruction on firearm safety, firearm handling, shooting technique, safe storage, legal methods to transport firearms and securing firearms in vehicles, laws governing where permitholders may carry firearms, laws regarding the permissible use of a firearm, and laws regarding the permissible use of lethal force in self-defense.]

Fairly stupid to do the shooting before you run through the safety, handling, and technique aspects.

[Preston-CLB]

I agree it's pretty stupid to do the shoot before any classroom instruction. Regarding my previous statement where Lady Ruger said it did not make any sense at all, I agree. It seems pretty stupid to combine both requirements into a class. As I said, it is a rumor, nothing more.
-P

[Scotty]

I agree it's pretty stupid to do the shoot before any classroom instruction.

Half the class is learning to shoot for the first time.

[zilla8]

Half the class is learning to shoot for the first time.

I don't think this is a good idea and definitely not for initial or renewal ccw. My training provider offers a basic pistol class that is good for first time gun owners etc. I would advise anyone applying for ccw to get familiar with your firearm and do some range time before you get to proceed to training in the process.

[L84CABO]

I agree it's pretty stupid to do the shoot before any classroom instruction.

Why?

The shooting portion of the CCW class is a qualification test only. And you're expected to have basic gun handling proficiency and the ability to pass the test before you get to class.

There is no part of the classroom instruction that covers gun handling, weapons manipulation, etc., or anything that would help you in the shooting test in any way. It's completely irrelevant which one goes first.

[Scotty]

I don't think this is a good idea and definitely not for initial or renewal ccw.

While it is not a good idea, that is the reality. I only go to renewal classes that is held on its own. Long ago, I went to a renewal class that was held in conjunction with a initial class. That was one of the scariest things I've ever done. There was people that couldn't figure out that you can't use mags from one gun with another model gun. A southpaw that bought a right handed holster and basically swept everyone on the draw. The BSIS test is not that hard, but more than half the class used the entire target and was still missing. Then there was the comments of never having shot weak hand.

[Preston-CLB]

Why?

The shooting portion of the CCW class is a qualification test only. And you're expected to have basic gun handling proficiency and the ability to pass the test before you get to class.

There is no part of the classroom instruction that covers gun handling, weapons manipulation, etc., or anything that would help you in the shooting test in any way. It's completely irrelevant which one goes first.

My point was given how little gun handling and actual shooting many people do before taking a CCW class, a review of good practices goes a long way to ensuring a safe qual shoot.

Case in point: In my initial class, which was 8 hours (before SB2), 50% of the students had only fired their weapon once or twice before attending the class. I was in the other 50%. The instructor did a good review and safety talk before we did the shoot. While it was 'old hat' stuff for me and the other experienced shooters, the new folks had a more successful qual than they otherwise would have had.
*****
L84CABO, there appears to be a difference between your comment:

There is no part of the classroom instruction that covers gun handling, weapons manipulation, etc.

And Lady Ruger's quote above:

The course shall include instruction on firearm safety, firearm handling, shooting technique, safe storage, legal methods to transport firearms and securing firearms in vehicles, laws governing where permitholders may carry firearms, laws regarding the permissible use of a firearm, and laws regarding the permissible use of lethal force in self-defense.

Do the statements differ because IA's have different requirements for the curricula their approved instructors teach? Serious question. I am not saying either statement is incorrect.
-P

[Dvrjon]

I think that was my quote, not Lady Ruger’s, and it came straight out of Penal Code 26165 (2).

(2) The course shall include instruction on firearm safety, firearm handling, shooting technique, safe storage, legal methods to transport firearms and securing firearms in vehicles, laws governing where permit holders may carry firearms, laws regarding the permissible use of a firearm, and laws regarding the permissible use of lethal force in self-defense.

That means all curricula of all IAs and all trainers must contain these aspects.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=26165.

[Preston-CLB]

I think that was my quote, not Lady Ruger’s, and it came straight out of Penal Code 26165 (2).

That means all curricula of all IAs and all trainers must contain these aspects.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=26165.

My bad.

Thanks for the PC citation.
-P