Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

[jb7706]

California is not very restrictive on places one can carry with LTC. These are the known places LTC does not protect possession; if a place is not listed here, you are allowed to carry in that place. Please read the whole thread - updates may be in the following posts before they are merged into this one. Citations in RED reflect new PC numbering. The legacy reference is in black.

California LTC are state licenses, issued by Sheriffs and some police chiefs. The concealed versions (almost all of them) are valid, in general, throughout the state. The open-carry versions (almost none are issued) are valid only in the county where issued.

Assuming there are no other restrictions printed on one's permit (you are bound by those, but those are not 'general' for all LTC holders), and the guns carried are listed etc. one may carry everywhere EXCEPT:

Federal law/regulation:

• On post office property, including the parking lot and grounds, even if it is in a locked container[39 CFR 232.1] See Buckeye FA
  • Social Security Administration offices
  • US Military Installations

State law/regulation:

• Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
• Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
• Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] [27330] *OK to carry if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
• While picketing [PC 12590] [PC 17510(a)] *picketing described as "informational activities in a public place relating to a concerted refusal to work" AKA a strike.
• Sterile area of airports [California Penal Code Section 171.5]
• While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040] [PC 25300(a)]
• Wildlife Refuges [California Fish and Game Code Section 10500(b)]
• The State Capitol, any legislative office, any office of the Governor or other constitutional officer, or any hearing room in which any committee of the Senate or Assembly is conducting a hearing, or upon the grounds of the State Capitol, which is bounded by 10th, L, 15th, and N Streets in the City of Sacramento unless one has permission from Chief Sergeants at Arms of the State Assembly and the State Senate. [PC 171c (b)(2)]
• The grounds belonging or adjacent to any any state prison or prison road camp or prison forestry camp, or other prison camp or prison farm or any other place where prisoners of the state prison are located under the custody of prison officials, officers or employees, or any jail or any county road camp in this state. [PC 4574] *Kind of a no brainer, but the "grounds adjacent to" is a bit sqishy. Be forewarned.
  

*39 CFR 232.1 "(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes."

*Some local ordinances may prohibit LTC in non-sterile areas of an airport

*171b(b)(3) is the general exemption for carry permit holders in state courthouses; however one must not be "a party to an action pending before the court."

Private Property

California has no legal support for signs on private property. There are no requirements for content or placement of such signs, and no penalty for ignoring such a sign. LTC holders should consider ordinary courtesy to the property owner if such a sign is observed; if asked by management to leave private property, for whatever reason offered, LTC holders should courteously comply .

Indian Casinos, per the 1999 'Compact' at 10.6. (h/t to member dustoff31, Feb 2, 2014) appear to be a special case of 'private property'. The Compact is an agreement between the Tribe and the State. While there is no direct penalty for LTC carrying in a casino, the casino is highly motivated to prevent carrying.

School Zones and School Campuses/Property

Because of SB707, the on-campus exemptions for CCW holders are removed from the Penal Code effective Jan 1, 2016.

CCW holders and their listed handguns have always been exempt from the 1000 foot rule, and remain exempt.

Also, ammunition brought onto campuses, where permitted as during transport, must also be locked up.

Alcohol and places that sell/serve

While not a 'place' per se, California law is silent regarding LTC and alcohol.

Some issuing agencies impose restrictions; LTC holders, as always, are bound by restrictions on their licenses.

A recent case in Sacramento had a carrier convicted for carrying while drinking; that strongly suggests that one's license is invalid while consuming alcohol.

[9mmepiphany]

Under Federal, I'd add the Social Security Administration offices

Under State, although it may vary by county, I'd add schools and Family Law Courts (you need not be a litigant)

[jb7706]

Under Federal, I'd add the Social Security Administration offices

Under State, although it may vary by county, I'd add schools and Family Law Courts (you need not be a litigant)

OK, SSA. Can you point to the regs? I think it would be good to be able to cite each of the exemptions now that I think of it.

Schools - 12050 licenses are exempt from 626.9 and the Fed equivalent. I'm wanting to stay at the state/fed level, individual counties muddy the water and seem to add to the ever growing pile of FUD. If it's not applicable to all CA CCW then let's ignore it for the purposes of this thread.

[9mmepiphany]

other lawful purposes.

I realize that there can be different takes on this, I just saying how it is enforced

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html

[jb7706]

other lawful purposes.

I realize that there can be different takes on this, I just saying how it is enforced

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...0----000-.html

So that exception seems to allow CCW then? If you are carrying on a valid CCW and you are there to help Grandma with her benefits is that considered a lawful purpose? Or or you saying that SSA office guards will freak out if they make your gun and things will have to get sorted out at a booking station?

[9mmepiphany]

I'm saying it's a point that hasn't been settled in court yet. The guards will converge and ask you to leave...to my knowledge, not one has legally challenged the point yet.

Isn't this the same section that the Post Office bans under?
Do they have a more specific section?

[paul0660]

The post office has a different reg. BOTH the PO and the general Fed building regs require posting.

Also, you have to differentiate between places it is illegal to carry, and privately owned places that have been posted. At the latter, you aren't breaking a law unless you refuse to leave. However, it can adversely affect your permit if your issuing CLEO is notified and finds it a bad move on your part.

[GrizzlyGuy]

See here in the FAQ: Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM?

That summary isn't meant to be exhaustive and may assume no CCW permit, but you may find something you weren't aware of.

[bigcalidave]

Polling place is perfectly fine to CCW at.

Take the "iffy" ones out of the where can I carry list. You can carry there. Realistically, you can carry anywhere there is not a metal detector and you won't risk going to jail if you get "caught". Private businesses, and licensed private shows on public lands, have the right to ask you to leave, and have you arrested for trespassing ONLY if you don't leave. Again, not getting in trouble for CCW. If you want your list to be factual, you must remove these.

A qualification can't be made of "you will lose your CCW even if you don't go to jail for it" since that is not a law, it is always the discretion of the issuing agency.

You can remove prisons, jails, game refuges. The metal detector rule applies to the first two, the game refuge one simply isn't true. You can enter the lobby / holding area at a jail, without going through a metal detector.

The masked identity one, pc12040, would be an interesting one to appeal all the way up. If they claim to include wearing a motorcycle helmet, or being masked on Halloween, then the RKBA implications are huge. I'm certainly not disarming next time I hop on a bike. Found your other thread on this in 2a. I'm certainly not wearing a mask to disguise my identity on a motorcycle, more to keep my skull in one piece.

Post offices, ugh. I'm of the kind to believe that my govt issued license is an official purpose of carrying a weapon for my stated self defense. This works on most of the federal regulations as well, it simply has to be fought in the courts by a non-criminal. I'm sure we will see these change at some point.

Federal facilities, edit that to read POSTED PROHIBITED federal facilities staffed by federal employees.

[jb7706]

Polling place is perfectly fine to CCW at.

Elections Code appears to disagree with you. Why is it OK to ignore this code?

(a) Any person in possession of a firearm or any uniformed
peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who
is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security
personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted
at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate
city or county elections official is punishable by a fine not
exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the
state prison for 16 months or two or three years or in a county jail
not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An unarmed uniformed guard or security personnel who is at the
polling place to cast his or her vote.
(2) A peace officer who is conducting official business in the
course of his or her public employment or who is at the polling place
to cast his or her vote.
(3) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
a city or county elections official.
(4) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
the owner or manager of the facility or property in which the
polling place is located if the guard or security personnel is not
hired or arranged solely for the day on which an election is held.

Take the "iffy" ones out of the where can I carry list. You can carry there. Realistically, you can carry anywhere there is not a metal detector and you won't risk going to jail if you get "caught". Private businesses, and licensed private shows on public lands, have the right to ask you to leave, and have you arrested for trespassing ONLY if you don't leave. Again, not getting in trouble for CCW. If you want your list to be factual, you must remove these.

A qualification can't be made of "you will lose your CCW even if you don't go to jail for it" since that is not a law, it is always the discretion of the issuing agency.

You can remove prisons, jails, game refuges. The metal detector rule applies to the first two, the game refuge one simply isn't true. You can enter the lobby / holding area at a jail, without going through a metal detector.

Agreed, removed these.

The masked identity one, pc12040, would be an interesting one to appeal all the way up. If they claim to include wearing a motorcycle helmet, or being masked on Halloween, then the RKBA implications are huge. I'm certainly not disarming next time I hop on a bike. Found your other thread on this in 2a. I'm certainly not wearing a mask to disguise my identity on a motorcycle, more to keep my skull in one piece.

In order to get busted it would have to come to light. Only really plausible way I can see for this would be a permit holder in a county that requires the holder to tell LEO s/he is packing and gets stopped on a traffic violation or perhaps a wreck where the holder was injured and transported. IANAL and I freely admit that I'm not good at interpreting code, but there is no language indicating intent. It only says one has to be masked and carrying and there is no 12050 exemption. I think it should stay there. Why not let the bike rider make the call? At least they have been informed of a potential problem.

Post offices, ugh. I'm of the kind to believe that my govt issued license is an official purpose of carrying a weapon for my stated self defense. This works on most of the federal regulations as well, it simply has to be fought in the courts by a non-criminal. I'm sure we will see these change at some point.

Until it changes the law and attorney analysis indicate that possessing a firearm on PO property are a bad idea. It's easy enough to avoid a PO anyway, a PMB can be rented at any Kinko's and stamps can be purchased all over the place.

Federal facilities, edit that to read POSTED PROHIBITED federal facilities staffed by federal employees.

Done.

What else?

[mej16489]

Elections Code appears to disagree with you. Why is it OK to ignore this code?

(a) Any person in possession of a firearm or any uniformed
peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who
is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security
personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted
at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate
city or county elections official is punishable by a fine not
exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the
state prison for 16 months or two or three years or in a county jail
not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An unarmed uniformed guard or security personnel who is at the
polling place to cast his or her vote.
(2) A peace officer who is conducting official business in the
course of his or her public employment or who is at the polling place
to cast his or her vote.
(3) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
a city or county elections official.
(4) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
the owner or manager of the facility or property in which the
polling place is located if the guard or security personnel is not
hired or arranged solely for the day on which an election is held.

Bolded section above is why it likely doesn't apply to a normal everyday CCWer.

[jb7706]

Bolded section above is why it likely doesn't apply to a normal everyday CCWer.

Good enough, thanks for making the obvious accessible for we slow guys.

[gschoelles]

Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM?

==snip==

* At any government-related meeting that is required to be open to the public. (171b PC)

Wonder if this could be construed to include Chamber of Commerce mixers, or similarly created functions created by the private sector but are heavily attended by elected officials.

[jb7706]

Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM?

==snip==

* At any government-related meeting that is required to be open to the public. (171b PC)

Wonder if this could be construed to include Chamber of Commerce mixers, or similarly created functions created by the private sector but are heavily attended by elected officials.

CCW holders are exempt.

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(1) A person who possesses weapons in, or transports weapons into,
a court of law to be used as evidence.
(2) (A) A duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5
(commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a retired peace
officer with authorization to carry concealed weapons as described in
subdivision (a) of Section 12027, a full-time paid peace officer of
another state or the federal government who is carrying out official
duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these
officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he
or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer.
(B) Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), subdivision (a) shall apply
to any person who brings or possesses any weapon specified therein
within any courtroom if he or she is a party to an action pending
before the court.
(3) A person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant
to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2
of Part 4.

[paul0660]

I have had these saved for at least a year so maybe they have gotten their act together at LAX:

http://www.lawa.org/uploadedfiles/airops/pdf/rules/Section_02-General.pdf

5. Carriage of Firearms. No person, except authorized peace officers, post office and customs employees, or members of the armed forces of the United States on official duty shall carry any firearms or explosives at the Airport without permission. All persons other than those in the excepted classes shall, while at the Airport, surrender all such objects in their possession to the Airport Police Division.

Note that the limits of the airport are undefined and there is not even an exception for passengers flying with their firearms. I don't know if the property line of the airport has the restrictions posted.