Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry

[Mstrty]

If you have a concealed permit for California this thread is not for you. You will think its stupid. If you have no desire to protect yourself with a gun outside your home or business this thread is not for you either. I found myself thread jacking some other ops Locked container thread so I decided to start my own.
This is a thread dedicated to LUCC. I have read various threads at different periods here on CalGuns and have come to the conclusion that if I have the funds to defend myself this might be a legal (or defendable) alternative to concealed carry. Here is my photoshop of this idea.

This is not ideal. Ideal would be a permit. but in a crowded theater with a gunman threatening my family It would be faster and more than likely safer than going to my car to get my gun. If someone produced this would you wear it or something similar.
I belive an unloaded gun in a locked container with a full mag in the locked container with it is feasible. The lock is pushbutton so no visualization is necessary. Your combo could be top right button down, the rest up.
With a little training you might add 1-2 seconds to get cartridge in chamber.

[Turo]

I love the idea of a locked holster for LUCC. I think the lock may be better if it was incorporated into the strap. You could use the same "push button" idea, but have buttons on the strap or something.

The problem I see with a locked holster, is that everybody will know what you've got in the holster. Then again, it'd be legal to conceal with a jacket or whatnot.

[Desert_Rat]

This is not ideal. Ideal would be a permit. but in a crowded theater with a gunman threatening my family It would be faster and more than likely safer than going to my car to get my gun

.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping

[Turo]

.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping

I'm thinking the OP had in mind the school shootings in which teachers/staff had CCWs in their cars and ran out to get them. Just my opinion.

[Mstrty]

.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping

Its just an example.
I forgot to tell you my son was taken hostage with a knife. The dude is on meth and cant see straight. Looking to protect my son I realize that my gun is in my car as I start to scurry out the theater I remember I am carrying Locked and unloaded so I reach down and hit the lock and in the darkness of the theater. I slide my pistol out and load the magazine while under the sound of my cough I rack the slide.

Thanks for seeing my error.

[Desert_Rat]

Its just an example.
I forgot to tell you my son was taken hostage with a knife. The dude is on meth and cant see straight. Looking to protect my son I realize that my gun is in my car as I start to scurry out the theater I remember I am carrying Locked and unloaded so I reach down and hit the lock and in the darkness of the theater. I slide my pistol out and load the magazine while under the sound of my cough I rack the slide.

Thanks for seeing my error.

In that case,Take care of binness.
I think it's just easy for people to get to thinking that since thet CCW that they are responsible for everybody within eyesight,wich they are not.I'm not saying that I think you are/would be one of these people.I'm just saying this for the benefit of those who may not know.If you are not fearing for your life or families lives,you better act wisely

[Mstrty]

In that case,Take care of binness.
I think it's just easy for people to get to thinking that since thet CCW that they are responsible for everybody within eyesight,wich they are not.I'm not saying that I think you are/would be one of these people.I'm just saying this for the benefit of those who may not know.If you are not fearing for your life or families lives,you better act wisely

Desert_Rat:
I appreciate your input.
The point I am trying to make is that we dont wait for our kitchen to catch fire to then run to Home Depot and buy an extinguisher. No different should I go out to my car and get a weapon If Im being shot at in a movie theater.

[fw10ring]

I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge in this area, as this is a new concept to me. I suppose I had wrongly assumed that carrying a concealed handgun, even if it were locked and unloaded, would be breaking some law. Is this actually legal in CA?

Follow-up - How could you convince the police or a jury that you weren't carrying loaded with no CCW and just dangled a lock off your holster so that you could say it was unloaded and locked until danger reared it's head?

[Fig]

I understand if this should be taken to a new thread, but since you are locking a holster, and the legalities of such, and have posed a scenario what about this idea? A glock is fairly easy to dismantle, and you can insert any gun easily taken apart, I am just using glock as an example. What if you were carrying the "pieces" of your gun around in this holster, locked or otherwise, and then if in the scenario above, you reassemble the gun pop in your magazine, and then take care of business.

I do realize that in a true danger situation, you will probably be shaking too hard to get the gun back together, but the point is, if you have nerves of steel, why can't you just carry around all of the pieces required to make a gun if needed?

[Mstrty]

Follow-up - How could you convince the police or a jury that you weren't carrying loaded with no CCW and just dangled a lock off your holster so that you could say it was unloaded and locked until danger reared it's head?

This is why I am bringing this up.
First I must reply by saying I am not a lawyer. I could not imagine to begin to give out any legal advice. No amount of reading or assuming on my part will ever stop a DA from prosecuting someone they belive has broken the law.
IMO This is the PC that a DA will use to convince the jury that you broken the law..

California basically says that there is no way to transport a gun period. Penal Code 12025 creates the crime of carrying a concealed firearm. but.... 12026.1 says no transportation unless locked in container and your in your motor vehicle or to and from directly... read next 12026.2(b)
Here it is if you dont want to look it up.
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the
firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
...
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key
lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

Now here is the exemption to the above law.

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
...
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

This is the part I am interperting. "deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary" could eaisily be where ever I need to protect myself.
So there it is a I read it.
Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry (LUCC) is illegal (PC12025)until 12026.2(b) gives an exemption to 12026.1 which is the exemption to 12025.

The law is not black and white. Unfortunately it is open to interpretation.
Now this is the great part about this forum. Those of us that are misinformed or ill advised can sit back and read the posts of the others that know more than we do and can advise us on this.

[fw10ring]

It seems like half the question is, what is a "Place" as defined in this context?


12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

[JTecalo]

could a lock be a type that uses magnet for a key instead of combo or key lock?

[Mstrty]

could a lock be a type that uses magnet for a key instead of combo or key lock?

Sure why not. It could also be an RF ID tag like the key card in secure work areas. I thought about a simple electronic 2 button lock. Button A and Button B with a combo like AABA. Why cant it be mounted on a sholder rig? Why cant it be red leather with a big white cross on it that says "First Aid"

Cop would have a hard time convincing a jury that it wasnt locked in a "secure" container if even he couldnt open it. Locked around your waist and locked up. Thats pretty secure.

[Librarian]

It seems like half the question is, what is a "Place" as defined in this context?


12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

12026.2 happily gives a long list of places, and then says

(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.

That (c) clause has been interpreted to mean 'the legislature does not claim to have listed all possible legal instances of carry'.

If you look at the list, you should notice that generally transport is legal between places where it is legal to have or use a handgun. If that's the case for your transport, odds are reasonable that such use might fall under (c).

You are, however, subject to the whim of a court on whether what you do is actually covered by that clause.

[fw10ring]

Under these transportation rules, it might be a tough sell to a jury so say that you were just transporting when you had your weapon at the movies, or the local zoo for instance. Anyone know if there has been any precedence set in court yet?