CCW Not Approved/Denied - Technicality

[logix1229]

CCW application was denied by city police department because I happen to live right on the line in an "unincorporated" area of my city that they claim belongs to jurisdiction of LASD. I have no type of criminal record or anything like that that would have prevented me from getting approved and the denial letter simply stated denied because I was not a resident of the city.

Pretty ridiculous because everything on my personal information uses the city name. I've lived here over 35 years and have never used the name of this "unincorporated" area of the city. My license, bills, everything goes by the city name. What boggles my mind is that if they're saying I should be using the new "unincorporated area" name, why would my background checks when purchasing guns be approved when I use the original city name. The post office, DMV, etc. all continue to deliver to the original city name, not the new name that this unincorporated was changed to. I don't even know when this area became "unincorporated".

The police department uses MyCCW for all the upfront processing and I even checked with them prior to applying and they said I was able to proceed with the application once they confirmed with the department but ended up still being denied. As of today, their website still shows my address is eligible. They are the contracting agency to process initial CCW paperwork before handing over the completed package to police department for final review so they should be doing their due diligence and providing me with the right information but they misinformed me and nothing I can do about it. I did my due diligence of verifying with them before applying but i'm the one on the losing end. If i wasn't eligible, they should've told me to go to LASD, not tell me yes just to get my money for the application. They are just grabbing people's money for nothing. They should have reimbursed me all my expenses but didn't.

I completed all requirements, including background, livescan, psychological evaluation, training, qualifications, etc. but they won't accept it. Cost me over $1,000 when all said and done.

They told me I have to apply through LASD which now I have to wait again in line and deal with their egregious wait times and do the process all over. I patiently waited for my city police department to release their CCW policy to apply because I knew the wait with LASD was so damn long. Sucks...

Just wanted to share my experience for others that may have "unincorporated" area within their city in case this happens to anyone else.

[Markinsac]

Look at the county assessor's maps - it should show specifically if you're in county or city space.

If the county doesn't have an agreement with the smaller city to allow issuing, you'll have to use the county. "Unincorporated" is the key word.

In Sacramento County - there are several areas with a Sacramento name, but not in the city's jurisdiction.

[Preston-CLB]

Two things:

What is the name of the city and what is the name of the "unincorporated" area?

Someone here may be able to help you navigate this issue.

#2: Does the IA (city PD) who issued the denial have an appeal process?
-P

[RickD427]

Your point that the city should have notified you concerning the issue of residency earlier in the process is well taken, and I agree.

But the issue of residency is determined by jurisdiction, and not the common terminology used to describe locations.

As a simple point of law, the Police Chief of city could not lawfully issue your permit, even if they desired to do so, if you are not an actual resident of the city. Please refer to Penal Code section 26155(a)(3).

[Preston-CLB]

Regarding your last sentence, Rick, even if the OP appealed, he would likely lose that appeal?

That's how I read it, anyway.
-P

[L-2]

This is a jurisdictional horror story and the city's initial info and specific address info seemingly is wrong.
Also, there are now monetary "damages", if this were a normal business issue.
So frustrating with LE department jurisdictional issues and misinformation.

There are several areas within California and even other states where jurisdictional issues arise between a county and a city.
Usually, all it takes for an LEO is to call a dispatcher for a "jurisdiction check" and get an immediate answer. In this case, it appears a city's website/address check is actually incorrect which caused the OP to lose both time and money.

If only that city (L.A.[West Covina apparently]) could arrange some influence to get the OP some priority with LASD, but the bureaucracy of the matter will likely prohibit any resolution, but I suppose it may not hurt to ask if the right person can be found (LAPD [WCPD} Chief, perhaps?).

So sorry.

[Jeepergeo]

On the line or near the line? It is rare for a residence to be split.

It seems one should know if they live in a city or county area.

[logix1229]

Two things:

What is the name of the city and what is the name of the "unincorporated" area?

Someone here may be able to help you navigate this issue.

#2: Does the IA (city PD) who issued the denial have an appeal process?
-P

The city is West Covina. Their appeal process was simply stated on the letter saying if i didn't agree, I could call and speak about it. I called and I explained that I was informed that i could apply, I did my check before starting the application but in the end WCPD said that MyCCW made a mistake and told me incorrect information.

This is a jurisdictional horror story and the city's initial info and specific address info seemingly is wrong.
Also, there are now monetary "damages", if this were a normal business issue.
So frustrating with LE department jurisdictional issues and misinformation.

There are several areas within California and even other states where jurisdictional issues arise between a county and a city.
Usually, all it takes for an LEO is to call a dispatcher for a "jurisdiction check" and get an immediate answer. In this case, it appears a city's website/address check is actually incorrect which caused the OP to lose both time and money.

If only that city (L.A.) could arrange some influence to get the OP some priority with LASD, but the bureaucracy of the matter will likely prohibit any resolution, but I suppose it may not hurt to ask if the right person can be found (LAPD Chief, perhaps?).

So sorry.

The issue I have with this is that on the MyCCW website where you can verify if your address is eligible, it says it is eligible. If they put that information, they should be the ones making sure that it is correct. It's not the WCPD website, it's the MyCCW website where you have to verify your address, and do all your paperwork through them first. At the end, they even advised me to contact LASD and see if my application could be transferred because the owner of MyCCW told me that all departments have the same process which i told him that's not the case and that every issuing agency has different requirements. I emailed LASD to ask and they said it would not be accepted as they have their own process.

On the line or near the line? It is rare for a residence to be split.

It seems one should know if they live in a city or county area.

From what i see on the map and county lines after researching, my address is right on the border of where "west covina" is and the new "unincorporated area". I walk out of my house, go 20 feet across the street and i'm in "west covina".

Even after looking at the lines drawn, it's weird that some streets (cul de sac), have one side of the street in "unincorpporated" and the other side of that same street is "west covina".

It just annoys me because I had a false alarm at my house a while back and the alarm triggered a police response and a west covina officer showed up, not la county sheriffs. When i told them about this, they said they would've re-routed through dispatch to LA county sheriff's but clearly this wasn't the case. WCPD showing up to my door shows to me that i am within their jurisdiction but whatever.

I'll just restart the process. I'm patient and can wait. I just hate heaving to deal with the BS of this entire process knowing i'll have to fork out double the money to re-do everything just to get this done.

[logix1229]

If only that city (L.A.) could arrange some influence to get the OP some priority with LASD, but the bureaucracy of the matter will likely prohibit any resolution, but I suppose it may not hurt to ask if the right person can be found (LAPD Chief, perhaps?).

So sorry.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that would be nice if WCPD could just pick up the phone and call over to LASD and tell them something along the lines of "hey we have an applicant here that's already completed all requirements, went through initial background investigations, etc....they just happen to be outside our jurisdiction...he's got an app on file with LASD...can u review his application, etc..."

but wait...that must be in my dreams.

[logix1229]

If only that city (L.A.) could arrange some influence to get the OP some priority with LASD, but the bureaucracy of the matter will likely prohibit any resolution, but I suppose it may not hurt to ask if the right person can be found (LAPD Chief, perhaps?).

So sorry.

Yes, that would be nice if WCPD could just pick up the phone and call over to LASD and tell them something along the lines of "hey we have an applicant here that's already completed all requirements, went through initial background investigations, etc....they just happen to be outside our jurisdiction...he's got an app on file with LASD...can u review his application, etc..."

but wait...that must be in my dreams.

[RickD427]

Regarding your last sentence, Rick, even if the OP appealed, he would likely lose that appeal?

That's how I read it, anyway.
-P

I can pretty much guarantee that he would lose the appeal. They key point being that the Chief of Police is not using any discretion in denying the permit.

Appeals can be useful if there is some room for discretion, and if there is information that the Chief did not fully apply in using their discretion to deny a permit.

But in this case, the Chief cannot lawfully issue a permit. About the strongest argument that I can see the OP making in an appeal is this "Chief, please break the law and issue me the permit, even though I didn't submit a proper application, because you didn't point out my mistake fast enough". I can't see any Chief of Police granting that appeal.

[Preston-CLB]

What you wrote makes perfect sense, Rick.

Even though the application software said the OP was eligible, the PD Chief must follow the law.

I hope the OP can get the application and payments to be recognized by LASD, but it's a long shot I would think. It's worth a look-see, though.
-P

[Dvrjon]

Op: your complaint is with MYCCW for providing false information which caused you to incur costs.

However, MYCCW appears to be acting as a contracted agent for the city and that reflects the issue back to the city as you relied upon the MYCCW information.

However, the cops aren?t the folks to tag. Since you don?t live in the city, they can?t issue. File a claim against the city for every dime expended based on your reliance on the MYCCW guidance.

I suspect that the city will be willing to negotiate a settlement for your costs and recover their costs from their contractor.

[logix1229]

Op: your complaint is with MYCCW for providing false information which caused you to incur costs.

However, MYCCW appears to be acting as a contracted agent for the city and that reflects the issue back to the city as you relied upon the MYCCW information.

However, the cops aren?t the folks to tag. Since you don?t live in the city, they can?t issue. File a claim against the city for every dime expended based on your reliance on the MYCCW guidance.

I suspect that the city will be willing to negotiate a settlement for your costs and recover their costs from their contractor.

I'm not blaming the police department. i understand why they can't accept the application and/or issue the permit if officially i'm not a resident even though i'm still using the city name on my address, etc. I wasn't aware of my address being withinin this new unincorporated area within the city until it was brought up by them. MyCCW should've also been aware of this issue but it appears they weren't and they provided me false information which resulted in the application not being accepted even though I completed all requirements, etc based off of their understanding of the city.

I'm merely posting to let others know that if they have an unincorporated area within their cities, to make sure if they should apply with LA County or their respective city police department.

I'm not going to make a big deal out of it, I already have an application on file with LASD and will wait again. I'm patient and can deal with it, just a little anoyed about it. Thanks for the advice though.

[Preston-CLB]

Logix, I appreciate your patience, but I do agree with Dvrjon that you consider filing a claim with the city. You have nothing to lose in trying to recoup all or part of the funds.

Additionally, this issue will force the city to address this with MYCCW and get it fixed before such a snafu ensnares someone else.

Let us know how things go.

Good luck,
-P