CCW convicted shooter database

[mk2dave]

Mods, move me if Im not in the right place.

Someone was asking for info on the number of CCW holders involved in shootings and failed to defend themselves legally. I think Ive found a lead.

https://concealedcarrykillers.org/

This org isn't 2A friendly and thinks CCW's are bad, and attempts to make arguments that seem to fail that funny thing called math.

Their claim is that since 2007 there has been approx. 2500 cases of CCW holders indefensibly taking life. They seem to be including suicides in their stats.

If we go back 15 years averaging 30,000 deaths per, that's 450,000. 450,000 divided by 2500 is .00555... or 0.55%

According to google, there are 21.5M CCW's in the US (J. Lott says 22M, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=4279137). Est. population in US 330M, which means 15% (correct number is 6.5%) of the US pop has CCWs.

Using their numbers, 15% of the population accounts for 0.55% of the deaths, meaning CCW holders are 27.3 TIMES safer than non CCW holders in this respect.

Any lose of life is tragic. Lets do our part by encouraging friends and family to get their CCW and reduce the occurrences of this tragedy.

Thank you, VPC!

[Dan_Eastvale]

For Utah it shows a total of 10, including a murder suicide involving 4 deaths....All going back to 2007

Not sure what this site is trying to show.
There were a lot more murders by legal gun owners without a CCW.

I'm thinking, so what?

[Librarian]

See also Clayton Cramer's 2012 paper discussing their data - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2095754

Tl;dr - it sucks.

[mk2dave]

See also Clayton Cramer's 2012 paper discussing their data - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2095754

Tl;dr - it sucks.

I see. So not only is the VPC info (and I'm being generous here) questionable, but also seems to support CCW's unintentionally. Full disclosure, I didnt read the full link posted by Librarian, only the first 3.5 pages to see what shortfalls it may refer to.

Lets look at the numbers this way, because I'm a math nerd.

CCW holders: 21,500,000
Non CCW holders: 308,500,000
Total pop: 330,000,000
CCW related deaths: 2,500
Non-CCW related deaths: 447,500
Est. total deaths: 450,000

Number of CCW holders per CCW related death: 8,600
Number of non CCW holders per non CCW related death: 689

Clearly, this whole non-CCW thing is an epidemic that needs to be stopped!

[DolphinFan]

The statistical significance of all firearms deaths in the US, that are NOT SUICIDE average 15,000 a year. The population is 330,000,000.
15,000/330,000,000=.00004545.

[Rickybillegas]

How are you getting 15%?

21,500.000/330,000,000 = 6.5%

BTW, the way I do it is by 'adult population', because obviously, youngsters can't carry.

So, I assume adult population is 75% x 330,000,000 = 247,500,000/21,500,000 = 8.7% have permits.

That even seems like a lot considering so many states are CC and people don't need permits.

I like your thinking though. A lot of people on both sides don't care about stats, but I do. I know it doesn't matter much, but I like to know because I want to know the truth and honest evaluation is the way that leads you there.

[mk2dave]

How are you getting 15%?

21,500.000/330,000,000 = 6.5%

BTW, the way I do it is by 'adult population', because obviously, youngsters can't carry.

So, I assume adult population is 75% x 330,000,000 = 247,500,000/21,500,000 = 8.7% have permits.

That even seems like a lot considering so many states are CC and people don't need permits.

I like your thinking though. A lot of people on both sides don't care about stats, but I do. I know it doesn't matter much, but I like to know because I want to know the truth and honest evaluation is the way that leads you there.

You're right, I don't know where I got 15% from. So much for the math nerd. I had a feeling I had a mistake, glad someone caught it. The point still carries, though.

I find it sad that "they" publish evidence that seems to fly in the face of the very narrative they push. All to prove they don't even listen to themselves!

[SkyHawk]

in 26+ states, every adult is a legal concealed carrier if they are not a prohibited possessor. CCW stats are now meaningless

[caliberetta]

The big problem with the Internet is that it has enabled the STUPID to publish.

[WithinReason]

The big problem with the Internet is that it has enabled the STUPID to publish.

And, people read these publications and believe they are true...

[Edgy01]

When I got my first CCW many years ago in Massachusetts (am guessing around 1989) the authorities told me that one of the things the LE community discovered was that NO CCW possessor had ever ben caught doing anything with a firearm illegally. In short, the best citizens were the CCW holders--even better than LEOs. BUT, that was years ago. Things change, and even the best screenings fail and so many are slipping through the cracks. If you look at the statistics, regardless, numerically the CCW holders are still far better and safer than the general population.