PC 26205 - explain it to me like I'm 5

[NateTheNewbie]

PC 26205 States the following:

The licensing authority shall give written notice to the applicant indicating if the license under this article is approved or denied. The licensing authority shall give this notice within 90 days of the initial application for a new license or a license renewal, or 30 days after receipt of the applicant’s criminal background check from the Department of Justice, whichever is later. If the license is denied, the notice shall state which requirement was not satisfied.

I'm curious how this plays out post Bruen, given the increase in applications.

Let's say that, theoretically, that I applied to my issuing agency ("IA") on 6/25. That means that the IA has until 9/23. Except – maybe my criminal background check from DOJ hasn't come in by then.

Questions:

-What triggers the criminal background check from DOJ?

-Is there something that I can do while my application is in queue – and prior to the interview – to trigger this criminal background check from DOJ? My concern is that my IA (Alameda) may drag this out, relying on applicants not having starting the process for the criminal background checks. I'd like to jump in front of this if possible.

-Do IA's have to complete the whole process, including (e.g.) range qualification and psychological testing (if applicable), within the time frame established by PC 26205? Or can they "approve" the license, but stall issuing the license within that time frame because of, e.g. range qualification?

-What relief, if any, is available to an IA that violates PC 26205?

[Bbonez]

Depends on your IA. Mine allows the applicant to get the livescan done immediately after submitting the application. Doing the livescan initiates the background check.

Someone on here said we can file a Writ of mandamus if they go beyond the time frame. Someone else pointed out that it costs $500 to file.

[Quiet]

The 90 day time period starts on your interview date, when the issuing agency officially accepts your permit application and you are live scanned by them.
The 30 day time period starts when the issuing agency gets the results of being live scanned from CA DOJ.
Which ever time period takes longer is the deadline they must notify you that you are approved or denied.

Bottom line...
None of the legally mandated time periods start until you are live scanned by your issuing agency, which happens when they officially accept your application at your interview.


Scheduling an appointment or submitting an online application does not start any of the time periods.
Nothing an applicant can do can speed up the time periods.

The issuing can approve an application and delay issuance until all legal requirements are completed by the applicant.
^Example: You are approved, then do their range qualifications, then get issued your permit.
The time periods are for notification of approval/denial and not for when they must issue the carry permit.

Contact CA DOJ and submit a compliant that your issuing agency is violating PC 26205 because they have not notified you of your approval/denial status within the mandated time periods.


When you are live scanned, ask for your ATI number.
You can then check the status of your live scan on the CA DOJ website (CA DOJ Applicant Background Check Status).
^Checking your status will help you determine when the 30 day time period starts.

[9Cal_OC]

^^^ Someone should tell Sheriff Villainueva that he’s not following state guidelines people are waiting months after their interview and DOJ results to get an approval for pickup.

[Quiet]

^^^ Someone should tell Sheriff Villainueva that he’s not following state guidelines people are waiting months after their interview and DOJ results to get an approval for pickup.

The time periods establishes the deadline for notification that an applicant is approved or denied and does not mandate a time period for when a permit is actually issued by the issuing agency to an approved applicant.

[Bbonez]

The 90 day time period starts on your interview date, when the issuing agency officially accepts your permit application and you are live scanned by them.
The 30 day time period starts when the issuing agency gets the results of being live scanned from CA DOJ.
Which ever time period takes longer is the deadline they must notify you that you are approved or denied.

Where did you get this information from?

My application process went like this:

6/23/22 - Application submitted online
7/6/22 - Livescan
8/7/22 - Livescan results sent to IA
8/23/22 - interview (by phone about 10 minutes)

Are you trying to say my 90 days started on 8/23? Not 6/23 or even 7/6?

Directly from the PC:
The licensing authority shall give this notice within 90 days of the initial application for a new license or a license renewal

Doesn't say anything about interview date.

[Quiet]

Where did you get this information from?

My application process went like this:

6/23/22 - Application submitted online
7/6/22 - Livescan
8/7/22 - Livescan results sent to IA
8/23/22 - interview (by phone about 10 minutes)

Are you trying to say my 90 days started on 8/23? Not 6/23 or even 7/6?

Directly from the PC:
The licensing authority shall give this notice within 90 days of the initial application for a new license or a license renewal

Doesn't say anything about interview date.

Typically, the interview date is when they fingerprint/live scan you.

In your case, the 90 day would have started on 07-06-22 and the 30 day would have started on 08-07-22.
You should be looking at a deadline of around 10-04-22 for them to notify you if you have been approved or denied.

Bottom line...
None of the legally mandated time periods start until you are live scanned by your issuing agency, which typically happens when they officially accept your application at your interview. [PC 26185(a) and 26190(a)]

[Bbonez]

Bottom line...
None of the legally mandated time periods start until you are live scanned by your issuing agency, which typically happens when they officially accept your application at your interview.

I think every IA is different. I applied and paid online on 6/23/22 and called to make sure they received my application. They told me they had received it and to print out a form they emailed me and I could take that to the station to get fingerprints. Online I submitted everything and that is the day I believe 90 days started.

In your county it might be very different...

[Quiet]

I think every IA is different. I applied and paid online on 6/23/22 and called to make sure they received my application. They told me they had received it and to print out a form they emailed me and I could take that to the station to get fingerprints. Online I submitted everything and that is the day I believe 90 days started.

In your county it might be very different...

Per CA DOJ BOF... (how they count the time)
Until the first fee is submitted, nothing is officially started.
First fee isn't submitted, until the issuing agency fingerprints/live scans the applicant. [PC 26185(a)(2) and 26190(a)(3)]



Penal Code 26185
(a)(1) The fingerprints of each applicant shall be taken and two copies on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice shall be forwarded to the department.
(2) Upon receipt of the fingerprints and the fee as prescribed in Section 26190, the department shall promptly furnish the forwarding licensing authority a report of all data and information pertaining to any applicant of which there is a record in its office, including information as to whether the person is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(3) No license shall be issued by any licensing authority until after receipt of the report from the department.

Penal Code 26190
(a)(1) An applicant for a new license or for the renewal of a license shall pay at the time of filing the application a fee determined by the Department of Justice. The fee shall not exceed the application processing costs of the Department of Justice for the direct costs of furnishing the report required by Section 26185.
(2) After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustments for the department’s budget.
(3) The officer receiving the application and the fee shall transmit the fee, with the fingerprints if required, to the Department of Justice.

[Bbonez]

I don't believe 90 is enough time for my IA to do everything they WANT to do. I want to force my IA to cut some of the red tape (preferably the shrink exam.) There is only 1 shrink allowed and he is in a different county a long drive from me. This 1 guy is doing evaluations for the county and at least one other PD that I'm aware of. He is going to be swamped. My IA won't even let you schedule an appointment with the guy until after the sheriff himself signs off on your file. My file hasn't got to him yet because the investigator is waiting for all of my other CCW IAs (out of state) to respond to his information inquiry. He said it's a required part of his due diligence.

I'm in a county that issued 1 CCW this year and about 1-3 every year prior. Last time I talked to them they were complaining about the flood of applicants (only 90.) And he blamed the "flood" on the delay.

Contacting out of state jurisdictions or asking for a psych evaluation is allowed but needs to be done in the time frame. They can't make their process so cumbersome that it's impossible to finish in time. If they are forced to make a decision on my application prior to my shrink appointment, they couldn't legally deny me because they are too slow. I've turned everything in before they ever asked for it. Any delay is on them.

[Bbonez]

Per CA DOJ BOF... (how they count the time)
Until the first fee is submitted, nothing is officially started.

Thanks, I paid online the second I submitted my application.

[L84CABO]

I don't believe 90 is enough time for my IA to do everything they WANT to do. I want to force my IA to cut some of the red tape (preferably the shrink exam.) There is only 1 shrink allowed and he is in a different county a long drive from me. This 1 guy is doing evaluations for the county and at least one other PD that I'm aware of. He is going to be swamped. My IA won't even let you schedule an appointment with the guy until after the sheriff himself signs off on your file. My file hasn't got to him yet because the investigator is waiting for all of my other CCW IAs (out of state) to respond to his information inquiry. He said it's a required part of his due diligence.

I'm in a county that issued 1 CCW this year and about 1-3 every year prior. Last time I talked to them they were complaining about the flood of applicants (only 90.) And he blamed the "flood" on the delay.

Contacting out of state jurisdictions or asking for a psych evaluation is allowed but needs to be done in the time frame. They can't make their process so cumbersome that it's impossible to finish in time. If they are forced to make a decision on my application prior to my shrink appointment, they couldn't legally deny me because they are too slow. I've turned everything in before they ever asked for it. Any delay is on them.

I totally agree that most of the stuff they are asking for is ridiculous and unconstitutional. I also agree that IA's need to issue permits expeditiously. I personally believe that 30 days should be the standard...that's 30 days from the time you submit your application. 30 days is plenty of time for an IA to conduct a background check. If gun stores can do it in ten days, then 30 days should be plenty. As a point of reference, Washington state issues permits in 30 days. But they, of course, don't have all the nonsense that CA does.

The problem, however, is that it will likely take a lawsuit to get IA's to clean up their acts. The IA's don't care about pissed off citizens. And most believe that backlogs, being short staffed and underfunded, and a whole host of other reasons, are valid justifications to delay your ability to exercise your God given rights.

[DolphinFan]

[NateTheNewbie]

Per CA DOJ BOF... (how they count the time)
Until the first fee is submitted, nothing is officially started.
First fee isn't submitted, until the issuing agency fingerprints/live scans the applicant. [PC 26185(a)(2) and 26190(a)(3)]



Penal Code 26185
(a)(1) The fingerprints of each applicant shall be taken and two copies on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice shall be forwarded to the department.
(2) Upon receipt of the fingerprints and the fee as prescribed in Section 26190, the department shall promptly furnish the forwarding licensing authority a report of all data and information pertaining to any applicant of which there is a record in its office, including information as to whether the person is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(3) No license shall be issued by any licensing authority until after receipt of the report from the department.

Penal Code 26190

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I don't have any information which would lead me to dispute the above information, but it raises some really thorny questions:

-What prevents a licensing authority from simply dragging the front end of the process out without the clock starting?

-Can a licensing authority "start the clock" by accepting fees, but then "stop the clock" by refunding those fees? (e.g. Alameda)

-Short of a lawsuit, what remedy do applicants have against a licensing authority which engages in the above practices?

[Bbonez]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I don't have any information which would lead me to dispute the above information, but it raises some really thorny questions:

-What prevents a licensing authority from simply dragging the front end of the process out without the clock starting?

-Can a licensing authority "start the clock" by accepting fees, but then "stop the clock" by refunding those fees? (e.g. Alameda)

-Short of a lawsuit, what remedy do applicants have against a licensing authority which engages in the above practices?

I was on the CRPA website and saw something that said something like, "if you're have problems with your CCW process let us know." So I did. They gave me their attorney's email and told me to send them my concerns. The attorney got back to me within minutes! He told me they will likely be sending my sheriff and other antagonistic sheriffs a letter in the coming days.

I don't think there is anything besides legal action, or the threat thereof, that can compel these IAs to do the right thing.