When to decock?

[Trakker]

I don't have a carry permit yet, haven't taken the formal classes yet either. However, I do shoot tactical type events so fairly proficient.

I see a lot of training on drawing, sight picture etc. My question is when to de-cock the gun if you have to run to gain cover, do you usually de-cock (DA/SA pistols i.e. HK and SIG 226)? Most gun fights don't last long enough to even consider this.

For sure de-cock before holstering.

[ptmn]

Adrenaline and fear does unpredictable things to people. Be both safe and tactical, de-cock before you move.

The above isn't a 100% hard fast rule, it's situation, training and equipment dependent. Military personnel equate it to doctrine being 80% correct and the other 20% being METT-C dependent on the decision to break from doctrine.

[Trakker]

Adrenaline and fear does unpredictable things to people. Be both safe and tactical, de-cock before you move.

The above isn't a 100% hard fast rule, it's situation, training and equipment dependent. Military personnel equate it to doctrine being 80% correct and the other 20% being METT-C dependent on the decision to break from doctrine.

Thanks. Training is key, for me I always have to "re-learn" when shooting from my 1911.

[zinfull]

Personally I would de-cock when the fight is over.

[SharedShots]

I'd be more concerned about where the trigger finger was than if the pistol was de-cocked or not. Ignorance and unsafe gun handling will eliminate any benefit of the de-cocker 100% of the time.

If you don't have your finger on the trigger what difference does the position of the hammer make? It isn't going to fire unless you pull the trigger. A de-cocker is not a safety, it's a safe way to lower (de-cock) the hammer. That trigger finger can still fire the pistol no matter what.

Learn the difference between a safety, a de-cocker and understand their functions and you can answer your own question.

[ptmn]

Personal choice, but I've seen more than one ND caused by not putting a weapon on safe before moving. Political DA's are more than happy to burn good citizens that use firearms to defend themselves or loved ones against criminals. Have an ND and cause collateral damage on an innocent bystander in the background and the DA's burn will have the full backing of the court of public opinion...which we already know is not in our corner.

Plenty will sing the cliche of better to be judged than carried; however, once they are in the hot seat, the cliche isn't going to retain its luster.

[tomrkba]

Personal choice, but I've seen more than one ND caused by not putting a weapon on safe before moving. Political DA's are more than happy to burn good citizens that use firearms to defend themselves or loved ones against criminals. Have an ND and cause collateral damage on an innocent bystander in the background and the DA's burn will have the full backing of the court of public opinion...which we already know is not in our corner.

Plenty will sing the cliche of better to be judged than carried; however, once they are in the hot seat, the cliche isn't going to retain its luster.

He has a SIG, so there is no external safety.

Too many people do not think of these things. They just think "gun fight" and include everything before, during and after. This is not true. The correct answer is that he should not engage in any administrative activities during a gun fight. There is a beginning, middle and end to a fight. There is a definitive period of ENTERING the fight, which is the moment of action AS the decision is made. We know this from the first time it was put to paper in the 13th Century in Liechtenauer's fight books (and probably others too). The OODA Loop formally describes this process, but it seems like most people don't really get how to apply the "O" "O" "D" part of the equation. Administrative activities should occur only before or after the fight. Decocking the gun is one such admin activity.

Maybe one way to explain it is with fist fights. We've all been in them and probably done some boxing. There's a point where the fists come up. You know exactly how far your fist can reach. There is a very short moment where you step in and YOU KNOW that you can hit and be hit. You have crossed that threshold to enter the fight. Before, you were just dancing around out of range, looking for the right time. Those were the "O" and "O" and "D". The decision to step in is made, thus committing to the "A". Same goes for leaving; you'll step out of range. Between those two points, you're not concerned with your boxing gloves, mouth guard...or your gun's thumb safety or decocker. It is more important to make the hit than it is to prevent making the hit.

There is no safety in a gun fight; don't tell me otherwise since it's so easy to prove with force on force and watching ASP videos. Muzzles go EVERYWHERE, and people shoot trying to score hits, or worse, merely because it makes them feel good. We can TRY OUR BEST to control it, but the bad guy moves around and chaos ensues. For example, the shooter can try to change the angle of a shot, but the bad guy may not cooperate. Yes, people run through buildings doing room clearing flipping safeties on and off...that is not a gun fight; those moments are before and after fights. They have time to switch between thought processes. My point is if we're IN THE MOMENT OF THE FIGHT and thinking about safety, then we're not thinking about tactics. Worse, if we think about court rather than about bullets, then this can cause havoc on the shooter's ability to engage in the fight in the form of hesitation, incorrect avoidance, etc. The time for such thinking is long, long before the actual fight itself. As time narrows, then so does your ability to change the narrowing decision tree.

Once the gun fight is over, then we do our best to change our mindset to "safety". Fingers off triggers, safeties engaged, guns holstered, etc. The change from "fight" to "safety" can occur in tenths of a second.

I hope this makes sense to you.

[Trakker]

[hermosabeach]

During a fight- stay in the fight!

Don't fight fair.
Learn to shoot while moving
Learn where the finger goes when finger is off of the trigger.
Learn where finger goes when not ready to shoot.

Keep the finger there until you need to shoot or until event is over. Then follow your procedure for holstering.



There are 4 rules...

1- loaded
2-cover
3- finger
4- In front of target- target and beyond.


With games - play by the rules of the games

Fighting obey the 4 rules

If the finger is off of the trigger, ND are much less likely to OCCUR.

[Big Jake]

I had a Kimber 1911 on my CCW years ago. I found that I was not comfortable with a single action pistol as a carry option so I sold it and never looked back!

[SharedShots]

There is no gray area, there is discretionary and critical thinking. Here is what I mean-

The use of a decocker does not prevent the pistol from being fired only how the trigger functions in a DA/SA pistol. No one can tell you or even recommend decocking before moving because each situation is different and no one knows your capabilities or skill level.

There are people, well trained and demonstrably skilled that are uncomfortable with a cocked and locked 1911 style pistol. Often, that comes from a lack of confidence in either the mechanics of the pistols operation, confidence in the quality of the mechanisms or more likely lack of confidence in their own abilities to safely handle the pistol or the form factor of the design (grip angle, style etc). Many of these people will carry a pistol with an internal hammer that is cocked and locked without even questioning it but just the exposed hammer makes a difference to them.

1911 style pistols have a decocking feature and its called the thumb.

IOW it comes down to how much confidence you have in your skill and the reliability of the pistols design not to fire if you are moving to another location yet still might need to engage. No one in the world can tell you that, that comes from you, there is no best practice because no two situations are identical or so broadly presented that there is a generic answer.

Since it's come up here with the 1911 style, it's actually easier and less intrusive to put the safety on with those than to decock a DA/SA and need to switch between trigger function styles. Those who train frequently can transition easily but if you fall into the category of a once in a quarter training and outside of that don't handle the pistol much, the transition can be a big difference.

Notice there is no decocker on a revolver other than the thumb but few people will pull back the hammer if they are engaging in reality and not some game.

The real question though is what does a decocker do for you when moving? It doesn't render the pistol safe or even safer since a trigger pull still fires the pistol. This calls into question the confidence the person has they won't AD the pistol when moving in the idea that its harder to pull the trigger in DA mode than SA. To that I say unless the person can't manage to control their trigger finger the decocker serves no beneficial function when moving unless that is how you practice each and every time.

I'd say clear up the grey area in your mind because that is the last thing you need if you carry. The only grey area in your mind should be to shoot or not shoot, not to leave cocked or decock because you need to move a few feet to cover or get away from the situation if possible.

There was a comment about staying in the fight. Think real hard about that. With each shot on either side the risk of loss of life goes up and it's not the risk of life to the BG I'm talking about, it's your own, some innocent bystander, someone a long way away (the projectile from either your or the BGs gun). You aren't the police and if the situation presents itself where you can exit the situation safely and then remain safe where some obvious greater good to protect those with you isn't present, staying in a fight proves what and accomplished exactly what? If after the first shot you aren't hitting then you've come across someone who is well trained, perhaps better than you or your situation isn't as good as you thought.

Once in the fight stay in the fight is a myth no one should buy into. There is no duty, no oath bound obligation to hang in until the bitter end.

[DaveInOroValley]

Kind of off the question, but I saw a easy way to check your decocker function. Place a pencil eraser end first into the barrel. Activate the decocker, if it flies out of the barrel you know it's not working.

In turn you can see the function of a working strike since it will fly out of the barrel when the firing pin hits it.

[Mute]

I don't teach anyone to decock before moving nor do I know any other training school that does and I've been to quite a few.

[71MUSTY]

I deactivate the decock as part of my draw. Decock is engaged to holster.

Decock is never engages while in an at ready position. Therefore I would never Decock during a threat even while moving. Of course trigger and muzzle discipline are critical. That is how I trained, your training may be different.

[M1NM]

Keep the finger there until you need to shoot or until event is over. Then follow your procedure for holstering.
If the finger is off of the trigger, ND are much less likely to OCCUR.

There have been many NDs where the finger was not removed from the trigger before holstering. Occurs at all times - training, fighting and even by a cop in a gun store after he showed his Glock to the counter guy.