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  • CSACANNONEER
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Dec 2006
    • 44094

    PC 171 (b)

    (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part 1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:
    (1) Any firearm.
    (2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 17235 or in any provision listed in Section 16590.
    (3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.
    (4) Any unauthorized tear gas weapon.
    (5) Any taser or stun gun, as defined in Section 244.5.
    (6) Any instrument that expels a metallic projectile, such as a BB or pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun or paint gun.
    (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
    (1) A person who possesses weapons in, or transports weapons into, a court of law to be used as evidence.
    (2) (A) A duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a retired peace officer with authorization to carry concealed weapons as described in Article 2 (commencing with Section 25450) of Chapter 2 of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer.
    (B) Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), subdivision (a) shall apply to any person who brings or possesses any weapon specified therein within any courtroom if he or she is a party to an action pending before the court.
    (3) A person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6.
    .....
    .....
    .....
    This is for academic discussion only and, I will not advise or suggest that anyone acts on any info or opinions that this thread might reveal.

    So, we all know that a CA CCW allows one to carry a permitted firearm in government building and at public meetings. However, the way I'm reading this, it would also allow a person holding a valid CA LTC to carry a large knife, stun gun, etc. Yes, that includes legally bring a firearm, knife, stun gun, etc. into a (non Federal) courthouse. Am I reading it wrong?
    NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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  • #2
    daniel.ratner
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 403

    I read the (3) "the firearm" meaning other items do not apply


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    • #3
      CSACANNONEER
      CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Dec 2006
      • 44094

      Originally posted by daniel.ratner
      I read the (3) "the firearm" meaning other items do not apply


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Thanks for making me feel STUPID.
      NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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      Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

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      • #4
        daniel.ratner
        Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 403

        Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
        Thanks for making me feel STUPID.


        LOL nah, I just look at how some scumbag attorney would try to prosecute me [emoji30]


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        • #5
          CSACANNONEER
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Dec 2006
          • 44094

          I missed the obvious.
          NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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          • #6
            CAL.BAR
            CGSSA OC Chapter Leader
            • Nov 2007
            • 5632

            Originally posted by daniel.ratner
            LOL nah, I just look at how some scumbag attorney would try to prosecute me [emoji30]


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            On behalf of the "scumbag attorneys" who also DEFEND people FROM charges like this.... the legal maxim is "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" Meaning, the expression of one means the exclusion of all others". More simply put... if you have a permit to carry a gun... you can carry a gun. Nothing more.

            BTW - don't just read this statute and think you can carry into a gov. building etc. Your issuing agency gave you specific rules about carrying as well, and what might happen if you knowingly carry where it is otherwise banned.

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            • #7
              daniel.ratner
              Member
              • Jun 2010
              • 403

              Originally posted by CAL.BAR
              On behalf of the "scumbag attorneys" who also DEFEND people FROM charges like this.... the legal maxim is "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" Meaning, the expression of one means the exclusion of all others". More simply put... if you have a permit to carry a gun... you can carry a gun. Nothing more.



              BTW - don't just read this statute and think you can carry into a gov. building etc. Your issuing agency gave you specific rules about carrying as well, and what might happen if you knowingly carry where it is otherwise banned.


              Dude lighten up... No offense to you, I always just live by planning for the worst contingency. The term scumbag applies to those to which it applies. If you are one so be it, if not again since it. Not everyone I work with in the DoD is the pinnacle of moral standards either...

              In this I just simply read by the letter to stay safe, hence the article "the"...




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              • #8
                CSACANNONEER
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Dec 2006
                • 44094

                Originally posted by CAL.BAR
                On behalf of the "scumbag attorneys" who also DEFEND people FROM charges like this.... the legal maxim is "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" Meaning, the expression of one means the exclusion of all others". More simply put... if you have a permit to carry a gun... you can carry a gun. Nothing more.

                BTW - don't just read this statute and think you can carry into a gov. building etc. Your issuing agency gave you specific rules about carrying as well, and what might happen if you knowingly carry where it is otherwise banned.
                Yup, some IAs have extra restrictions. State law allows one with a LTC to carry in a government building or public meeting but, I am unaware of a single courthouse in this state that will allow it even though it is legal.
                NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
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                Utah CCW Instructor


                Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

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                CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

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                • #9
                  Old_Bald_Guy
                  Veteran Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 2901

                  In addition to IA restrictions and conditions, many counties (Sacramento, for example) and cities have local ordinances prohibiting it, and no, such ordinances are NOT preempted by the Penal Code.


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                  Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences.

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                  • #10
                    CWM4A1
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 1135

                    Well, specifically for OC, in terms of license 8 (f):

                    "possession of a firearm at any city, county, state, or federal building where prohibited by law,"

                    The key term is "by law". At least for state building, exemption clearly exist which makes it legal. That's also why I don't know how DMV's no weapon sign would hold water when they specifically cited 171 (b) as source of authority to ban weapons, CCW holders included. City and county may have separate ordnance that does not provide CCW permit exemption.
                    NRA certified RSO, Pistol/Rifle/Personal Protection Inside The Home instructor, Certified SIG/Glock pistol armorer.

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                    • #11
                      CSACANNONEER
                      CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 44094

                      Originally posted by Old_Bald_Guy
                      In addition to IA restrictions and conditions, many counties (Sacramento, for example) and cities have local ordinances prohibiting it, and no, such ordinances are NOT preempted by the Penal Code.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                      That would only be for County or City buildings, right? State building, like DMV, are not affected by Sac's local code. Correct? It also appears that 9.42.040 does not exempt retired LEOs carrying under HR218.
                      Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 05-10-2017, 5:08 PM.
                      NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                      California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
                      Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
                      Utah CCW Instructor


                      Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

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                      CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

                      KM6WLV

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                      • #12
                        Old_Bald_Guy
                        Veteran Member
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 2901

                        Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
                        That would only be for County or City buildings, right? State building, like DMV, are not affected by Sac's local code. Correct? It also appears that 9.42.040 does not exempt retired LEOs carrying under HR218.
                        Right, but the OP wasn't limiting the question to state buildings. What would apply in state buildings for those who have Sac County issued licenses is the "no carrying where signs prohibit it" condition.




                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                        Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences.

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                        • #13
                          Cokebottle
                          Seņor Member
                          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 32373

                          Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
                          Yup, some IAs have extra restrictions. State law allows one with a LTC to carry in a government building or public meeting but, I am unaware of a single courthouse in this state that will allow it even though it is legal.
                          Ya... Legal if you are not a party to the action (which would potentially include a non-sworn jury member), but you're going to have a lot of fun getting your gun back from the deputy after passing through the metal detector.
                          - Rich

                          Originally posted by dantodd
                          A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

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                          • #14
                            CSACANNONEER
                            CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 44094

                            Originally posted by Old_Bald_Guy
                            Right, but the OP wasn't limiting the question to state buildings. What would apply in state buildings for those who have Sac County issued licenses is the "no carrying where signs prohibit it" condition.




                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                            Thank you. That's what I thought.
                            NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                            California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
                            Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
                            Utah CCW Instructor


                            Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

                            sigpic
                            CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

                            KM6WLV

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