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  • Gryff
    CGSSA Coordinator
    • May 2006
    • 12679

    Originally posted by junglepete
    what would you say about a person yelling "fire!" in a crowded movie theater? it seems there are reasonable limits to civil liberties when they infringe on the liberties of others.
    It is perfectly legal to yell "fire!" in a movie theater. Especially if there IS a fire. What is not legal is to yell with the intent to incite panic when there is an obvious chance that people will get hurt.

    Using this analogy is a specious argument, though. The right to be issued a CCW does not automatically entail that in all cases someone else's rights will be infringed. The assertion that even a significant minority of others will have their rights infringed by CCW holders is a fact that cannot be backed up with statistics since traditionally CCW holders are one of the safest, most law-abiding demographics in American society.

    Originally posted by junglepete
    the same could be said about ccw permit issuance: the right for people to practice their civil liberties end when they infringe upon the rights of others and the state has an imperative to reduce this chance as much as possible, even at the cost of 'softly infringing' on the civil rights of responsible and smart/great shooters such as yourself.
    You cannot have freedom and safety. They are incompatible concepts, so a balance is sought between them. But the point of the Constitution is to codify which rights are culturally sacred, and in doing so, says that your desire for safety cannot supersede these fundamental rights.

    Especially in California, the CCW (and firearm, in general) history is not one soft infringement. If you want laws that punish bad behavior, that is fine. But arguing for laws that prevent bad behavior conflicts tremendously with the concept of freedom. And in the case of what is granted by the Second Amendment, preventative measures must take backseat to enshrined and ennumerated rights.

    So, more simply, demonstrate how the issuance of a CCW to me infringes on anyone else's rights. You cannot use the hypothetical of an incompetent boogeyman to prevent the exercise a right that the Founders said was yours to exercise.
    My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions.

    Comment

    • RAD-CDPII
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 996

      Attention, Attention, Attention! Warning, Warning, Warning!!! The stay on SB2 got put on hold. If we carry on 1/1/24, we will be criminals, even if we have a CCW. Check out the attached link from Reno May, the plaintiff in the case.

      The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by thoes who have not got it.
      George Bernard Shaw

      AKA RAD-G27

      sigpic

      Comment

      • SilveradoColt21
        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
        • Sep 2021
        • 2439

        Emailed Judea and she let me know that they are processing in the upper 900's so almost there
        sigpic

        Comment

        • CalBear92
          Junior Member
          • Aug 2022
          • 35

          Originally posted by RAD-CDPII
          Attention, Attention, Attention! Warning, Warning, Warning!!! The stay on SB2 got put on hold. If we carry on 1/1/24, we will be criminals, even if we have a CCW. Check out the attached link from Reno May, the plaintiff in the case.

          https://youtu.be/8XMpG3CpDLs?si=lZUXPwEUbJ-yhUV3
          There are no words for this. Truly disgusting. Especially with all the points made in the injunction order, it would seem to me that they should leave the status quo (SB2 enjoined) until the trial. How quickly can this get to the SCOTUS??

          In the meantime, every criminal now knows that every law-abiding CCW holder (who doesn't want to risk losing their permit or not being insured) is going to be unarmed. And particularly, all places of worship are now insecure making them huge targets - particularly during this increase of hate against Jews and Muslims - something specifically noted as a concern in the Injunction order. I fear there may be some horrible hate crime now and even then the State won't understand what they've done to cause this!

          Comment

          • RAD-CDPII
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2007
            • 996

            Originally posted by junglepete
            maybe you can take it up with the supreme court who explicitly ruled in the bruen decision that states can maintain a 'shall-issue' stance in which they lay out objective steps anybody can take to obtain a ccw. in effect, all bruen did was rule 'may-issue' permitting as unconstitutional (since it's based on arbitrary criteria that differ on a case by case basis). the scotus itself does not oppose the need for a ccw to conceal carry (as well as screening and training to obtain one) as unconstitutional. if this offends you, there are a number of states you can move to where you can openly carry without a permit. may i suggest you move to one?
            They already did. NYSRPA V Bruen already did and NY and NJ got shot down on similar laws. They did put limits on restricting states from alternate plans on denying CCW?s and what they could do , including excessive fees. And now we have this SB2 BS where 95% of the state is a gun free zone for CCW?s. In the Bruen decision, it was even stated that you can not make the island of Manhattan a sensitive zone. Emporer Newsom does not care about safety, it?s all about POWER!
            The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by thoes who have not got it.
            George Bernard Shaw

            AKA RAD-G27

            sigpic

            Comment

            • RAD-CDPII
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2007
              • 996

              Originally posted by CalBear92
              There are no words for this. Truly disgusting. Especially with all the points made in the injunction order, it would seem to me that they should leave the status quo (SB2 enjoined) until the trial. How quickly can this get to the SCOTUS??

              In the meantime, every criminal now knows that every law-abiding CCW holder (who doesn't want to risk losing their permit or not being insured) is going to be unarmed. And particularly, all places of worship are now insecure making them huge targets - particularly during this increase of hate against Jews and Muslims - something specifically noted as a concern in the Injunction order. I fear there may be some horrible hate crime now and even then the State won't understand what they've done to cause this!
              It?s not about security and for Emperor Newsom is just about POWER. The 9th circus court of shameles is a joke and just doing the wishes of the EMPEROR.
              The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by thoes who have not got it.
              George Bernard Shaw

              AKA RAD-G27

              sigpic

              Comment

              • dugiepts66
                Junior Member
                • Oct 2022
                • 49

                Got an update back from Judea. Sent her an email after my early December psych exam and when I would hear about next steps and training.

                Weeks later got a note- ?SB2 has affected 90% of the vendors statewide. We are waiting for word from DOJ about enforcement of this SB2 to applicants and vendors both.?

                Not sure how to feel at this point. Any updates from you all on progress?

                Comment

                • Gryff
                  CGSSA Coordinator
                  • May 2006
                  • 12679

                  Emailed Judea last week. Says I am 1096 in queue list, and they are working on application numbers up to 1000.

                  Applied September 6, 2022.
                  My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions.

                  Comment

                  • CalBear92
                    Junior Member
                    • Aug 2022
                    • 35

                    Just saw CRPA announce that they got the SB2 injunction back in place!

                    You can make a “thank you” donation to support the fight here: https://donorbox.org/stopsb2

                    Comment

                    • RAD-CDPII
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 996

                      Great news

                      SB2 isn again dead for now:

                      The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by thoes who have not got it.
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      AKA RAD-G27

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • RAD-CDPII
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 996

                        Originally posted by dugiepts66
                        Got an update back from Judea. Sent her an email after my early December psych exam and when I would hear about next steps and training.

                        Weeks later got a note- ?SB2 has affected 90% of the vendors statewide. We are waiting for word from DOJ about enforcement of this SB2 to applicants and vendors both.?

                        Not sure how to feel at this point. Any updates from you all on progress?
                        Don?t think that?s part of SB2, maybe an interpretion by DOJ, getting Law Suits filed now. Also, as of today, SB2 is dead again. Not sure for how long, but dead for now.

                        The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by thoes who have not got it.
                        George Bernard Shaw

                        AKA RAD-G27

                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • dugiepts66
                          Junior Member
                          • Oct 2022
                          • 49

                          SB2 is absolutely not gone. Only the sensitive places portion. The new training, course content (mental health) etc are all absolutely alive and required.

                          Unfortunately, looks like Alco did nothing to prepare in advance for these SB2 considerations and so we are dealing with further delays. I?ve gone through everything except the training/quali, and here we are nearing a month after my psych waiting for them to figure out a path fwd.

                          Comment

                          • beardo1
                            Junior Member
                            • Dec 2022
                            • 36

                            8/7/2022: Applied at ACSO website (#901 in the queue)
                            10/26/2023: Got email for scheduling Livescan
                            11/9/2023: Livescan completed at ACSO Castro Valley station
                            12/6/2023: Got email for scheduling interview
                            12/7/2023: Interview at ACSO Dublin office
                            12/23/2023: Email from Judea that they are moving to Psych Evaluation
                            1/2/2024: Email from Cordico to schedule Psych Evaluation
                            1/9/2024: Psych Evaluation done

                            Comment

                            • dugiepts66
                              Junior Member
                              • Oct 2022
                              • 49

                              Anyone received a ?go-to-training? email since December 15th after their psych?

                              Comment

                              • SilveradoColt21
                                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                                • Sep 2021
                                • 2439

                                Just completed my livescan yesterday and now waiting for communication to let me know when to proceed to the next step, finally saw some progress over 16 months after submitting application!


                                8/28/2022: Submitted application online and paid corresponding fees
                                01/09/2024: Got email to schedule Livescan
                                01/10/2024: Livescan completed
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