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Ok guys,
The nice folks a CalGuns have given us a spot to talk about Appleseed so I am going to use it to spout off.
What is Appleseed?
Appleseed is a rifle training program based on early 20th century US Army marksmanship. It is designed to train you to shoot at a rifleman's quarter mile. That is, hit a man sized target @ 500 yards. To put that another way,it teaches you to shoot from standard field positions and shoot to 4 MOA. Don't know what MOA is...come to Appleseed my child.
But I have heard that Appleseeds are shot at 25 yards.
Well 25 meters really. That is 82 feet. Here is the problem. We need to be able to use any rifle even a .22 rimfire. 4 MOA is 4 MOA. If you can't shoot that well at 25 meters I guarantee you can't shoot it at 500. By teaching you to be able to shoot to a 4 MOA standard (that is 4 inches @ 100 meters) when you do go to shoot the real distance you can hit the target. The other factors that come into play at that distance still need to be learned, but you can hit the target. Want to shoot an Appleseed at 500 yards? Then sign up for a rifleman bootcamp. But be warned those are 1 week long.
Can I shoot an Appleseed with my Barrett 50BMG?
Only if I get to try it. No really, Appleseed is a shoot what you brung event. Are some rifles better? You bet. Most production rifles don't have very good sights. The most common type of rifle you will see, at an Appleseed, is what we call an LTR (Liberty Training Rifle). You can read about those on the Appleseed forum. This is the link.. "But I want to shoot my Marlin 60, Remington 597, AR15, M1a or whatever Grandpa left you." Bring it. The only 2 things I can say is you won't get full use of the training without a military type web sling. You can get them from the Appleseed Store. They are also available at CMP and other locations. The fancy slings at the gun shop don't work well. The military web slings use 1.25" swivels so when you set up your rifle get 1.25" ones. If you can't find a sling try and get the swivels, instructors usually have a few loaner slings. The second thing is John Wayne was wrong. Yes, it hurts me to say that but lever actions rifles don't work well. The reason the lever gun never made it as a military firearm is that it doesn't work well in prone. Sorry cowboys. Also remember your ammo costs. .22lr is much cheaper than .308. After you shoot rifleman with your .22 then shoot it with your M1A.
Can I use a scope?
You bet. I have reached the age where it is a strain to focus on the front sight. I can do it but 2 days of open sight shooting gives me a headache. Bring your scope. You are going to want one with lower magnification. 18x will drive you crazy when you are shooting standing. Most 3x9 rimfire scopes work well.
Alright I want to go what should I bring?
Donuts and coffee for the instructors. No, not really but I do like the ones with the sprinkles. Here it is from the Appleseed web sight.
Personal items
A teachable attitude (most important thing) **
Ear protection Muffs and plugs **
Eye protection **
Elbow pads or shooting Jacket
Ground cover (Rug remnant will work)
A hat
Little notebook (those little 2.5 X 3.5 work well)
Pen
Sun Screen
Lots of water (Must stay hydrated)
Light Lunch
Snacks
Folding Chair (not necessary but nice)
Wet wipes
Bug spray
Aspirin or Ibuprofen
Necessary clothing for any kind of weather
** Very important things
Rifle specific preparations
Rifle preferably zeroed for 25 meters
400+ rounds of the same type and brand of ammo
Sight adjustment tools
GI style web Sling
Two mags. 10 rds. each.
Gun cleaning supplies and lube
Instructions for your rifle (if you have them)
Know your rifle
Something to cover your rifle to keep blowing sand or rain off it.
Staple gun
Staples
Back-up rifle (if you have one)
The shooting mat and something to protect your elbows is very important. Also ladies as much as we enjoy it, there hot brass flying around so keep your shirt tucked in, exposed skin gets burned.
Ok, I;m gonna come to your silly shoot. How should I get ready?
It is amazing what 2 days of getting in and out of shooting positions does to you. You will be sore after an Appleseed To stay in shape to get into positions I keep an old rifle stock in the house. Spend 10 min. every night getting into position. It will really help. If you want to practice at the range make some targets. Take a sheet of paper and put some one inch squares. Put them a 25 meters/yards and shoot them from your favorite position. Remember no bench, no sand bags, no bipod. I will see if I can attach one to this post.
Ok, I have probably left out your question let me know. Also an addition to the what to bring list. If you have an instant shelter like an ezup they are nice. Most ranges are short on shade.
See you at an Appleseed!
So this post has been up for a while and the one question seems to be about what kind of rifle. "Is my rifle OK for Appleseed?" The answer is YES! We have seen folks have a great Appleseed experience with everything from a single shot .22 to a Nagant 91/30. The most common kind of rifle at an Appleseed is what is called an LTR. Here is the dope on LTR's from the Appleseed forum. I hope this helps
Liberty Training Rifle - A Definition and Explanation of Purpose
Here at Appleseed, we have seen the cost of centerfire ammo skyrocket along with everyone else. When the prices started to rise, some enterprising Appleseeders worked up a trainer rifle based on the Ruger 10/22, and it was quickly dubbed the "Liberty Trainer Rifle", or LTR for short. Since then, the term LTR has become more generic in use to mean any low cost but adequate alternative to the centerfire rifles.
The Purpose of a Liberty Training Rifle
LTRs can be built upon many manufacturers' products and there are endless varieties available. The idea is to have an inexpensive rifle which you can learn rifle marksmanship skills, which will transfer to any rifle. An LTR serves two very important purposes:
1) It allows you to practice and improve your marksmanship skills without breaking the bank. For about the cost of one weekend's worth of centerfire ammunition, you can develop an LTR that uses inexpensive .22 ammo. After all, pulling a trigger is pulling a trigger. It doesn't matter which rifle you are holding at the time. Skills developed on a .22 are transferred instantly to your centerfire rifle.
2) It allows you to teach others fundamental Marksmanship. Every Appleseeder should always strive to "Learn today. Teach tomorrow." A LTR provides for an easy and less intimidating way for you to achieve that goal. It is ideally suited for new shooters or responsible children. And because it is not an expensive rifle, you will feel more comfortable to loan it to your brother-in-law.
Hopefully you see the benefits an LTR can provide to both your wallet and to your mission of helping The Appleseed Project Return America to a Nation of Riflemen. Here is how to build one for yourself.
How to Assemble an LTR
The Ruger 10/22 still reigns as the first and most common LTR, however we have seen many different rifles and variations on the firing lines around the country and over the years. Please keep in mind as you read through this, LTRs are not required, they are just a way for you to save on centerfire ammo. Most locations allow centerfire rifles and Appleseed allows up to .32 cal/8mm rifles. Also keep in mind, we don't want to discourage you from bringing the rifle you have in your safe NOW. There is plenty which can be learned with your current rifle, there is no requirement for you to purchase an LTR.
Appleseeders have acquired a good deal of information about the Ruger 10/22 as an LTR, over the last couple of years. We have included the more basic information here in this PDF file Assembling an LTR. The Ruger 10/22, being one of the most popular rimfire rifles ever, has countless accessories which can be added. We have tried to keep these to a minimum for cost and simplicity. Our recommendation is if you do take this route, do the minimum until you have attended an Appleseed, then you can make an informed decision on which other modifications you would like.
Recently, Marlin has entered into the LTR market with their Marlin 795. It can be viewed here, Marlin's 795 page. The benefits the Marlin 795 has over the Ruger 10/22 are as follows:
-The Marlin only requires the addition of Tech-Sights Click here for Tech-Sight information
-The Marlin already has sling swivel studs, Bolt release, easy to manipulate magazine release.
-Initial purchase cost of the rifle is currently lower than the Ruger 10/22.
There have been many favorable reports about the functionality and reliability of the Marlin 795. As well as very favorable reports on the Ruger 10/22
An additional note, the Tech-Sights for the Marlin 795 are the same as for the Marlin 60, so if you, like many, have a Marlin 60 in your safe, it is just a step away from becoming an LTR.
There is no requirement for anyone to purchase or use an LTR at any Appleseed Shoot. This information is provided to your to do with it what you see fit. The LTR concept has helped many Appleseeders become Rifleman, stay proficient and save a good bit of money on ammo. They also make great loaner rifles too.
The nice folks a CalGuns have given us a spot to talk about Appleseed so I am going to use it to spout off.
What is Appleseed?
Appleseed is a rifle training program based on early 20th century US Army marksmanship. It is designed to train you to shoot at a rifleman's quarter mile. That is, hit a man sized target @ 500 yards. To put that another way,it teaches you to shoot from standard field positions and shoot to 4 MOA. Don't know what MOA is...come to Appleseed my child.
But I have heard that Appleseeds are shot at 25 yards.
Well 25 meters really. That is 82 feet. Here is the problem. We need to be able to use any rifle even a .22 rimfire. 4 MOA is 4 MOA. If you can't shoot that well at 25 meters I guarantee you can't shoot it at 500. By teaching you to be able to shoot to a 4 MOA standard (that is 4 inches @ 100 meters) when you do go to shoot the real distance you can hit the target. The other factors that come into play at that distance still need to be learned, but you can hit the target. Want to shoot an Appleseed at 500 yards? Then sign up for a rifleman bootcamp. But be warned those are 1 week long.
Can I shoot an Appleseed with my Barrett 50BMG?
Only if I get to try it. No really, Appleseed is a shoot what you brung event. Are some rifles better? You bet. Most production rifles don't have very good sights. The most common type of rifle you will see, at an Appleseed, is what we call an LTR (Liberty Training Rifle). You can read about those on the Appleseed forum. This is the link.. "But I want to shoot my Marlin 60, Remington 597, AR15, M1a or whatever Grandpa left you." Bring it. The only 2 things I can say is you won't get full use of the training without a military type web sling. You can get them from the Appleseed Store. They are also available at CMP and other locations. The fancy slings at the gun shop don't work well. The military web slings use 1.25" swivels so when you set up your rifle get 1.25" ones. If you can't find a sling try and get the swivels, instructors usually have a few loaner slings. The second thing is John Wayne was wrong. Yes, it hurts me to say that but lever actions rifles don't work well. The reason the lever gun never made it as a military firearm is that it doesn't work well in prone. Sorry cowboys. Also remember your ammo costs. .22lr is much cheaper than .308. After you shoot rifleman with your .22 then shoot it with your M1A.
Can I use a scope?
You bet. I have reached the age where it is a strain to focus on the front sight. I can do it but 2 days of open sight shooting gives me a headache. Bring your scope. You are going to want one with lower magnification. 18x will drive you crazy when you are shooting standing. Most 3x9 rimfire scopes work well.
Alright I want to go what should I bring?
Donuts and coffee for the instructors. No, not really but I do like the ones with the sprinkles. Here it is from the Appleseed web sight.
Personal items
A teachable attitude (most important thing) **
Ear protection Muffs and plugs **
Eye protection **
Elbow pads or shooting Jacket
Ground cover (Rug remnant will work)
A hat
Little notebook (those little 2.5 X 3.5 work well)
Pen
Sun Screen
Lots of water (Must stay hydrated)
Light Lunch
Snacks
Folding Chair (not necessary but nice)
Wet wipes
Bug spray
Aspirin or Ibuprofen
Necessary clothing for any kind of weather
** Very important things
Rifle specific preparations
Rifle preferably zeroed for 25 meters
400+ rounds of the same type and brand of ammo
Sight adjustment tools
GI style web Sling
Two mags. 10 rds. each.
Gun cleaning supplies and lube
Instructions for your rifle (if you have them)
Know your rifle
Something to cover your rifle to keep blowing sand or rain off it.
Staple gun
Staples
Back-up rifle (if you have one)
The shooting mat and something to protect your elbows is very important. Also ladies as much as we enjoy it, there hot brass flying around so keep your shirt tucked in, exposed skin gets burned.
Ok, I;m gonna come to your silly shoot. How should I get ready?
It is amazing what 2 days of getting in and out of shooting positions does to you. You will be sore after an Appleseed To stay in shape to get into positions I keep an old rifle stock in the house. Spend 10 min. every night getting into position. It will really help. If you want to practice at the range make some targets. Take a sheet of paper and put some one inch squares. Put them a 25 meters/yards and shoot them from your favorite position. Remember no bench, no sand bags, no bipod. I will see if I can attach one to this post.
Ok, I have probably left out your question let me know. Also an addition to the what to bring list. If you have an instant shelter like an ezup they are nice. Most ranges are short on shade.
See you at an Appleseed!
So this post has been up for a while and the one question seems to be about what kind of rifle. "Is my rifle OK for Appleseed?" The answer is YES! We have seen folks have a great Appleseed experience with everything from a single shot .22 to a Nagant 91/30. The most common kind of rifle at an Appleseed is what is called an LTR. Here is the dope on LTR's from the Appleseed forum. I hope this helps
Liberty Training Rifle - A Definition and Explanation of Purpose
Here at Appleseed, we have seen the cost of centerfire ammo skyrocket along with everyone else. When the prices started to rise, some enterprising Appleseeders worked up a trainer rifle based on the Ruger 10/22, and it was quickly dubbed the "Liberty Trainer Rifle", or LTR for short. Since then, the term LTR has become more generic in use to mean any low cost but adequate alternative to the centerfire rifles.
The Purpose of a Liberty Training Rifle
LTRs can be built upon many manufacturers' products and there are endless varieties available. The idea is to have an inexpensive rifle which you can learn rifle marksmanship skills, which will transfer to any rifle. An LTR serves two very important purposes:
1) It allows you to practice and improve your marksmanship skills without breaking the bank. For about the cost of one weekend's worth of centerfire ammunition, you can develop an LTR that uses inexpensive .22 ammo. After all, pulling a trigger is pulling a trigger. It doesn't matter which rifle you are holding at the time. Skills developed on a .22 are transferred instantly to your centerfire rifle.
2) It allows you to teach others fundamental Marksmanship. Every Appleseeder should always strive to "Learn today. Teach tomorrow." A LTR provides for an easy and less intimidating way for you to achieve that goal. It is ideally suited for new shooters or responsible children. And because it is not an expensive rifle, you will feel more comfortable to loan it to your brother-in-law.
Hopefully you see the benefits an LTR can provide to both your wallet and to your mission of helping The Appleseed Project Return America to a Nation of Riflemen. Here is how to build one for yourself.
How to Assemble an LTR
The Ruger 10/22 still reigns as the first and most common LTR, however we have seen many different rifles and variations on the firing lines around the country and over the years. Please keep in mind as you read through this, LTRs are not required, they are just a way for you to save on centerfire ammo. Most locations allow centerfire rifles and Appleseed allows up to .32 cal/8mm rifles. Also keep in mind, we don't want to discourage you from bringing the rifle you have in your safe NOW. There is plenty which can be learned with your current rifle, there is no requirement for you to purchase an LTR.
Appleseeders have acquired a good deal of information about the Ruger 10/22 as an LTR, over the last couple of years. We have included the more basic information here in this PDF file Assembling an LTR. The Ruger 10/22, being one of the most popular rimfire rifles ever, has countless accessories which can be added. We have tried to keep these to a minimum for cost and simplicity. Our recommendation is if you do take this route, do the minimum until you have attended an Appleseed, then you can make an informed decision on which other modifications you would like.
Recently, Marlin has entered into the LTR market with their Marlin 795. It can be viewed here, Marlin's 795 page. The benefits the Marlin 795 has over the Ruger 10/22 are as follows:
-The Marlin only requires the addition of Tech-Sights Click here for Tech-Sight information
-The Marlin already has sling swivel studs, Bolt release, easy to manipulate magazine release.
-Initial purchase cost of the rifle is currently lower than the Ruger 10/22.
There have been many favorable reports about the functionality and reliability of the Marlin 795. As well as very favorable reports on the Ruger 10/22
An additional note, the Tech-Sights for the Marlin 795 are the same as for the Marlin 60, so if you, like many, have a Marlin 60 in your safe, it is just a step away from becoming an LTR.
There is no requirement for anyone to purchase or use an LTR at any Appleseed Shoot. This information is provided to your to do with it what you see fit. The LTR concept has helped many Appleseeders become Rifleman, stay proficient and save a good bit of money on ammo. They also make great loaner rifles too.
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