Ppt process

[kemasa]

The maximum PPT fee you can charge is $10

I am sure he was talking about the total, $25 DROS and $10 FFL.

Furthermore, you might want to verify the sales tax thing. I'm not sure PPT requires sales tax on a used gun

You might want to check on that yourself. New or used does not matter. What matters with a PPT is if the FFL finds the buyer/seller and/or gets involved with the price, in which case it becomes subject to sales tax.

[Walky Talky]

a PPT both seller and buyer are there at the same time. "You" have nothing to do with the sale and or the money other than the $35 PPT fee you collect.

If you have anything to do with facilitating a PPT you must collect sales TAX (other then just doing the paperwork).


any other sale is a "DEALER" sale

The maximum PPT fee you can charge is $10


Furthermore, you might want to verify the sales tax thing. I'm not sure PPT requires sales tax on a used gun

[smoothang21]

To be clear there is nothing that says they must be present at the same time, just present at the FFL.

Now for 99.99% of shops they will not do this or understand this because it does put some liability on the shop. We will never do this for just anyone nor is it a blanket policy.

Smoothtang:
For now do everything 110% above what you should do until you start to understand the laws more. Yes we may do somethings that are not spelled out as 'a dealer can do this this and this' but as long as it doesn't say 'a dealer cannot do this this and this'. I read the laws, I study the laws, I talk about the laws with other FFLs and our attorney. While we may not be doing it as it was intended we are not doing anything illegal but it is up to YOU to know and understand that. You can't take a statement and blindly apply it, you need to read it, study it, look at difference scenarios and then make a decision on your own.

Ok great thank you very much understood and thanks for help

[Baboosh]

a PPT both seller and buyer are there at the same time. "You" have nothing to do with the sale and or the money other than the $35 PPT fee you collect.

If you have anything to do with facilitating a PPT you must collect sales TAX (other then just doing the paperwork).


any other sale is a "DEALER" sale

To be clear there is nothing that says they must be present at the same time, just present at the FFL.

Now for 99.99% of shops they will not do this or understand this because it does put some liability on the shop. We will never do this for just anyone nor is it a blanket policy.

Smoothtang:
For now do everything 110% above what you should do until you start to understand the laws more. Yes we may do somethings that are not spelled out as 'a dealer can do this this and this' but as long as it doesn't say 'a dealer cannot do this this and this'. I read the laws, I study the laws, I talk about the laws with other FFLs and our attorney. While we may not be doing it as it was intended we are not doing anything illegal but it is up to YOU to know and understand that. You can't take a statement and blindly apply it, you need to read it, study it, look at difference scenarios and then make a decision on your own.

[Baboosh]

And again we do this for customers we know, or sometimes we know the seller and buyer and they just work different schedules and can never hookup at a normal FFL so buyer pays seller and then the seller drops off the firearm.

But we never get in the middle of the transaction or act an as escrow middleman.

[Baboosh]

Reason why I was asking was because before thread baboosh and couple other dealers told me that a ppt both customers don't have to be present now I'm not sure if I'm missing some information or being misinformed

See I think that's that baboosh was talking about no law requiring them to be there same time but wanted to know how the process would work with money transfer it's on them I guess like you said and I'm thinking a dros worksheet will be filled out if it was a ppt that way.

We have had customers pay for a pistol via PayPal, check etc and the seller will drop it off and fill out the paper DROS form. Buyer then comes in and does 4473 and completes paper DROS form and we submit it as a PPT.

We never touched the money. We never negotiated for either the buyer or the seller. We never verified money, gun condition etc.

[Baboosh]

Reason why I was asking was because before thread baboosh and couple other dealers told me that a ppt both customers don't have to be present now I'm not sure if I'm missing some information or being misinformed

You cannot be involved in the process of the sale, holding money is being a part of a sale IMO. I do not want to be responsible for any money.

[kemasa]

I believe both parties have to be present since it's a face to face transaction.

Yes, but not at the same time.

a PPT both seller and buyer are there at the same time.

No.

Both people have to go to the FFL, but it does not have to be at the same time. A DROS worksheet can be used. That does not make it a dealer sale. If the FFL gets involved in finding the buyer/seller and/or gets involved in the price, then sales tax has to be collected.

[kemasa]

DROS worksheet.

There is nothing saying that you can't hold onto the money, but realize that if something happens to it, then it is on you. If you do hold the money, I would suggest having the person seal it in an envelope and sign or initial it so that it can be shown it was not opened.

If you were to do it as a consignment, then the firearm has to be held for 30 days and you have to be a secondhand dealer, as well as filling out all of the required forms.

[smoothang21]

I need to clarify that I am not a FFL holder. However, I have worked for a couple and am friends with many more. That said, I have yet to see any legal requirement for both parties to be in the shop at the same time. Many shops either know there is one, believe there is one or just have a store policy against PPTs without both parties being present at the same time. It makes things easier for the FFL if both parties are present at the same time and if I had a FFL, I would make this my policy. Of course, very good customers might be able to talk me into breaking that policy from time to time. But, I do see the risks involved in doing so.

If you choose to try a PPT with both parties being present at different times, when, where and how the seller is paid is of no concern to you. That's between them. All you are doing is the actual PPT transfer. The buyer and seller are both adults and can figure out how to transfer funds without you or your shop being involved in any way. It's funny how a buyer might not want to pay the seller the day before the transfer. The same buyer would have no problem sending funds across the country to a private seller on Gunbroker.

See I think that's that baboosh was talking about no law requiring them to be there same time but wanted to know how the process would work with money transfer it's on them I guess like you said and I'm thinking a dros worksheet will be filled out if it was a ppt that way.

[CSACANNONEER]

I need to clarify that I am not a FFL holder. However, I have worked for a couple and am friends with many more. That said, I have yet to see any legal requirement for both parties to be in the shop at the same time. Many shops either know there is one, believe there is one or just have a store policy against PPTs without both parties being present at the same time. It makes things easier for the FFL if both parties are present at the same time and if I had a FFL, I would make this my policy. Of course, very good customers might be able to talk me into breaking that policy from time to time. But, I do see the risks involved in doing so.

If you choose to try a PPT with both parties being present at different times, when, where and how the seller is paid is of no concern to you. That's between them. All you are doing is the actual PPT transfer. The buyer and seller are both adults and can figure out how to transfer funds without you or your shop being involved in any way. It's funny how a buyer might not want to pay the seller the day before the transfer. The same buyer would have no problem sending funds across the country to a private seller on Gunbroker.

[smoothang21]

Smoothang21 read this ^^^

Now read it again.

Repeat until the difference between a PTT and a dealer sale cements into your head.

It's important.

You don't understand what I'm saying I know difference between ppt and dealer. My question was about both parties not there same time. Because baboosh is the one that asked me the question of if I know difference between ppt and dealer sale I told him ya ppt both parties have to be there at same time he said incorrect they could be there seperatly at same location and that's as far as I went with that so I just wanted to follow up and clarify on whst he meant and how that was possible

[Condorguns]

a PPT both seller and buyer are there at the same time. "You" have nothing to do with the sale and or the money other than the $35 PPT fee you collect.

If you have anything to do with facilitating a PPT you must collect sales TAX (other then just doing the paperwork).


any other sale is a "DEALER" sale

Smoothang21 read this ^^^

Now read it again.

Repeat until the difference between a PTT and a dealer sale cements into your head.

It's important.

[ASD1]

OK, While I agree with baboosh that there is no legal requirement for both parties to be present at the same time, I believe there is a legal way to do it that most FFLs will agree is fine. Have the seller put the gun on consignment and then, have the buyer pay you for the gun. You will have to collect sales tax and can charge anything you want for the consignment fee. If you want to charge the seller nothing for a consignment fee, that would be legal. However, I suggest charging $1 just to make it look better. In fact, I believe that if it is a consignment sale, the DROS fees are only $25, so, you might as well charge a $10 consignment fee just to get something out of the transaction. I am not positive but, I think that you would need to hold the gun for 30 days prior to the transfer starting and have to a second hand dealer license if you want to go the consignment route.

yes hold it for 30 have a second hand lic and also charge sales TAX

[CSACANNONEER]

OK, While I agree with baboosh that there is no legal requirement for both parties to be present at the same time, I believe there is a legal way to do it that most FFLs will agree is fine. Have the seller put the gun on consignment and then, have the buyer pay you for the gun. You will have to collect sales tax and can charge anything you want for the consignment fee. If you want to charge the seller nothing for a consignment fee, that would be legal. However, I suggest charging $1 just to make it look better. In fact, I believe that if it is a consignment sale, the DROS fees are only $25, so, you might as well charge a $10 consignment fee just to get something out of the transaction. I am not positive but, I think that you would need to hold the gun for 30 days prior to the transfer starting and have to a second hand dealer license if you want to go the consignment route.