The Old Nature

[Chugiak]

The natural heart is as stated in Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? The Lord taught about it in Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.And Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Churches may talk about a change of heart, but it is never changed. A new heaven must be given. Another name of the old nature is the ?carnal mind ?.Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. These are the opposite of God?s thoughts. Remember Genesis 6:5 ? And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. His thoughts are not our thoughts Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. The mind is the source of thoughts, thoughts are the source of action. With this in mind, let?s use the analogy for sin is the root, and sins are the fruit. So I ask of you to read in Romans 1:16-5:11 where it is dealing with ?sins? and from Romans 5:12-8:39 it is sin that is dealt with. Tell me your thoughts after reading, and I am open to constructive criticism If it?s backed up with scriptures. I have the blessing of not having been raised in church, so I have no preconceived ideas or church doctrine to defend. I am a seeker of truth, always wanting to learn more about my Lord.


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[Barang]

Romans 6:4 kjv
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 12:2 kjv
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:21-25 kjv
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

[Chugiak]

Romans 6:4 kjv
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 12:2 kjv
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:21-25 kjv
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Thanks for that


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[billvau]

The natural heart is as stated in Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? The Lord taught about it in Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.And Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Churches may talk about a change of heart, but it is never changed. A new heaven must be given. Another name of the old nature is the ?carnal mind ?.Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. These are the opposite of God?s thoughts. Remember Genesis 6:5 ? And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. His thoughts are not our thoughts Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. The mind is the source of thoughts, thoughts are the source of action. With this in mind, let?s use the analogy for sin is the root, and sins are the fruit. So I ask of you to read in Romans 1:16-5:11 where it is dealing with ?sins? and from Romans 5:12-8:39 it is sin that is dealt with. Tell me your thoughts after reading, and I am open to constructive criticism If it?s backed up with scriptures. I have the blessing of not having been raised in church, so I have no preconceived ideas or church doctrine to defend. I am a seeker of truth, always wanting to learn more about my Lord.


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Sincerely sorry, but I have a very difficult time understanding your posts. I'll try my best to respond to what I *think* you're posting.

The "old nature" / "old man" / "old self" is dead/gone in a Christian (Romans 6:6). This is reiterated in Romans 7:1-6 and Ephesians 4:21-24.

Rom.6:6 knowing this, that our old self [literally "old man" in the Greek] was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

The Christian has a new nature / redeemed soul "incarcerated" in our "flesh" (our humanness). Our struggle with the flesh is what Romans 7 is all about.

As Galatians 5:16 says:

Gal. 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Because it is the nature of the flesh to wage war against the Holy Spirit and our redeemed soul:

Gal. 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

1 Pet. 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.


You may not have been raised in a Christian family or church, but as a Christian, the NT assumes (= commands) that you are now part of a church where you are properly taught and grown (Eph. 4:12-16).

Blessings,

[Chugiak]

Sincerely sorry, but I have a very difficult time understanding your posts. I'll try my best to respond to what I *think* you're posting.

The "old nature" / "old man" / "old self" is dead/gone in a Christian (Romans 6:6). This is reiterated in Romans 7:1-6 and Ephesians 4:21-24.

Rom.6:6 knowing this, that our old self [literally "old man" in the Greek] was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

The Christian has a new nature / redeemed soul "incarcerated" in our "flesh" (our humanness). Our struggle with the flesh is what Romans 7 is all about.

As Galatians 5:16 says:

Gal. 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Because it is the nature of the flesh to wage war against the Holy Spirit and our redeemed soul:

Gal. 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

1 Pet. 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.


You may not have been raised in a Christian family or church, but as a Christian, the NT assumes (= commands) that you are now part of a church where you a properly taught and grown (Eph. 4:12-16).

Blessings,

You got it


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[Garand Hunter]

Hi Bill, how are ya ? Its good to see you are still joining in.

Psalm 1

[Subotai]

Can someone clarify this part in Romans 7? I know we are supposed to put away the old man. But what is Paul getting at? It sounds like he, and us, will continue to sin. Does it then become a life-long battle, sin again, ask forgiveness again, ad nauseum, to the end of your days. Let's say for example, you look at chicks all the time and think "oh baby, you're hot", or you keep judging people, or you drink too much, etc. (whatever your particular failure is). No matter what you do, sooner or later you fall off the wagon and do it again. It seems like a never-ending cycle. What does Paul mean and how do we view these returning failures?



For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

[Barang]

short answer:

Romans 12:2 kjv
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

repentance is all about Turning away from sin. we will continue to commit sin until we receive our ressurected body but the difference between Christian and non-believer is this:
- non-believers Live in sin.
- Christians take themselves out and continues to avoid sinning. they don't put themselves in a situation where they can be tempted. they get rid of the filth out of their house. they don't watch garbage on tv/movies. they don't listen to garbage music.

when temptation comes, you look away, get away from them. fill your mind with wholesome and Godly things... good music, good tv programmings, books, daily/weekly Bible reading and such.

most important thing you can do is to pray for help and strength when in that situation to win the battle. satan will do everything to pull you away from God.
1 John 5:4 nkjv
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.