Fish and Game Code 2006

[CSACANNONEER]

Contrary to the Calguns keyboard commandos with their MOLLE plate carries and tacticool guns, your average LEO is a considerably more proficient with firearms than your average gun owner.

I know the cool crowd likes to feel smug that they are rambo and cops barney fife, but...

I grew up with a LEO father but, he was a shooter and hunter decades before he was a LEO. I will agree that shooters who happen to be LEOs are normally pretty proficient but, I've seen plenty of LEOs who really do not know how to shoot. I will say that every single LEO that I've seen shoot who I know was trained at Quantico is very proficient (except the one dumb azz ex-DEA agent). Other academies seem to lack this quality of training. I've shot competitively with LEOs who are average to pretty good. However, when I worked at a range, I also saw the "other LEOs". You know, the ones that only shoot one box of ammo the week before they have to qualify and always have trouble hitting a full sized silloutte at 7 yards. There are far too many of these types around. I'm surprised anyone would partner with them knowing that their firearms skills can't be relied upon in times of need. Of course, this is not the type of LEO who would frequent a gun forum so, I'm not talking about anyone here.

Now, I should clarify something else. I'm not sure that your post reads the way you ment it to. You wrote

Contrary to the Calguns keyboard commandos with their MOLLE plate carries and tacticool guns, your average LEO is a considerably more proficient with firearms than your average gun owner.

I know the cool crowd likes to feel smug that they are rambo and cops barney fife, but...

I feel that I either missed something or you mistakenly think that the average gun owner is a tactifool mall ninja. If that's your view, I'm sorry. If you are comparing tactifool idiots to the average LEO, I'd agree with you but, remember that there are more than a few tacticool, mall ninja, LEOs and that the majority of gun owners are more apt to use paper plates when eating moles than spend the money on special Molle plates.

[IrishJoe3]

I never claimed non-LEO idiots were pros

Contrary to the Calguns keyboard commandos with their MOLLE plate carries and tacticool guns, your average LEO is a considerably more proficient with firearms than your average gun owner.

I know the cool crowd likes to feel smug that they are rambo and cops barney fife, but...

[IrishJoe3]

I love how u think because u r a leo exempts u from the law.

Tangent here, WTF is up with text speak. Am I the only one that thinks "u" instead of "you" and "r" instead of "are" is incredibly lazy, sloppy and unprofessional?

If someone doesn't care enough to use proper grammar I usually don't care enough to even try to listen to their point.

Back to the regular topic....

[mej16489]

Bah, I'm pretty sure there is a relatively recent case from a circuit court (4th?) where the judge dismissed a case against a LEO with a Rifle on LEOSA grounds, but I can't find it either...

LEOSA is about "firearms" not "handguns"

[DEPUTYBILL]

It seems to me that one of the last PORAC magazines,had an article on the federal law regarding off duty carry. Can't find my copy now,but it seems that it was only an issue or two ago.

[Ron-Solo]

I love how u think because u r a leo exempts u from the law.

LEOSA allows law enforcement to carry and supersedes state laws. It is a federal law.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

[Ron-Solo]

I haven't been able to find the article yet. I recently had a flood of LEOSA info and am still sifting thru it. I may not have saved it, because I'm not a hunter.

The problem I see is that most of LEOSA refers to concealed weapons, but I think you might have a good defense. You might want to get an assessment from a good attorney such as Chuck Michel. I think they offer a free case assessment. Worth looking into at least.

[jdawggy79]

I believe there was recently a case involving this and LEOSA, which overrode the F&G section. I will post a link if I can find it.

Please do! Any advice is appreciated!

[john67elco]

Shall we go down the same road with all the youtube videos of non-leo idiots shooting themselves???

Stupid humans are stupid. Profession doesn't exempt that.

I never claimed non-LEO idiots were pros

[Ron-Solo]

I believe there was recently a case involving this and LEOSA, which overrode the F&G section. I will post a link if I can find it.

[jdawggy79]

Then I will apologize again.

May I ask what prompted him to check your gun in the first place?

He was actually undercover and was posing as a hunter on an ATV. As we were driving along a rocky dirt trail in the mountains, he flagged us down asking if we had seen any bucks. Shortly thereafter, he took off his camo jacket, revealed his uniform and stated he wanted to do an inspection of our tags and licenses.

After checking our valid tags, he asked if we were carrying any loaded guns in the vehicle. I immediately told him that I was an LEO and that my rifle was loaded for officer safety purposes. The rest of the contact is history.

[CSACANNONEER]

You are reading between the lines. I was very cordial and professional with the Lieutenant. In fact, I helped him render my rifle safe (per his request). He could not figure out how to unlock the bolt mounted safety on my Ruger Gunsite Scout which was in the "on" position.

Then I will apologize again.

May I ask what prompted him to check your gun in the first place? I had 3 separate interactions with 3 different wardens in one day last month. Not one of them even asked about our firearms.

[jdawggy79]

The simple fact that you feel so slighted that you started this thread gives me the feeling that you might have had a bit of an attitude yourself. If so you, of all people, should have known what to expect. If not, I'm just reading between the line wrong and I'll sincerely apologize in advance for that.

You are reading between the lines. I was very cordial and professional with the Lieutenant. In fact, I helped him render my rifle safe (per his request). He could not figure out how to unlock the bolt mounted safety on my Ruger Gunsite Scout which was in the "on" position. Despite what my wife tells me, I'm not that stupid to roll around with a long gun off safety. I even joked around with him and talked a little bit of shop, but he still saw fit to give me a ticket. Regardless of feeling slighted, as the tired out cliche goes, "it is what it is."

Contrary to a couple of opinions here, this thread was not started for me to bash the DFG. I said it before and I'll say it again - I have a deep respect for what CA DFG does to conserve CA's natural resources. I started the thread to remind LEO's who genuinely feel justified in carrying a loaded firearm off duty, that you cannot carry one in the chamber when hunting. Also, LEO's should not expect leniency from a DFG game warden, despite your best intentions. That is all.

[CSACANNONEER]

Thanks for your informative response, thingreenline. I agree with you that this is not LEO's bashing LEO's. When it comes to LEO's doing stupid things like "illegal methods of take, over limits of fish, spotlighting and trespassing," I agree that DFG should fang the off-duty LEO's. They absolutely should know better and there is no excuse - similar to DUI or Domestic Violence involving an off-duty LEO.

In my case, I understand that I was cited for a legitimate code, and I am willing and ready to face the consequences. However, I still do not agree with the citation because I feel that officers should be allowed to carry a concealed, loaded weapon when off-duty, regardless if they are hunting or not. As you said, if it "hit the fan" and you were fighting for your life with a heavily-armed sovereign citizen, I am sure you would want me or any other off-duty LEO to come to your aid with a loaded weapon.

In your experience, how often are these F&G 2006 citations dropped to infractions? If this gets dropped to an infraction, I am willing to take the swat and just pay the fine to move on. Anyhow, thanks for everyone's perspectives.

It would have been hunter bashing LEO if you had not tried to get out of the cite by identifying yourself as a LEO. But, the warden citied you knowing that you were a LEO trying to use your pofesional position to get out of a citation for breaking the law.

So, if you feel the law is just, the criminal (the one breaking the law) should be hung out to dry. But, if you don't FEEL the law SHOULD apply to you, you think it should be ignored?

I agree that LEOs and everyone else SHOULD have the right to carry a concealed loaded firearm for self defense. But, that's not always the case. There are certain activities that even LEOs can't carry while participating in. It's their CHOICE whether to participate in those activities or not so, they are not prohibited from concealed carry unless they opt to participate in activities like bow hunting or attending certain venues where the property/business owner doesn't allow LEOs or anyone to carry. However, most off duty LEOs do not have the authority to loaded open carry long guns, do they? Carrying a loaded (per DFG definition) long gun in a vehicle while hunting is something that isn't the brightest thing for anyone to do and is a strong indicator that one is thinking about quickly shooting from the vehicle if the chance arises. So, while many think that the spirit of the federal law should allow LEOS to always be able to loaded open carry long guns while hunting, the spirit and the letter of Ca's F&G laws are there to prevent accidents and poaching. Sorry but, I've known morethan a few LEOs who thought they were above the law and could poach game because they have a brass pass. While the game warden could have just stongly lectured you and given you a warning, he's probably had more than a few past encounters with other LEOs who pushed the wrong buttons in trying to talk their way out of legitimate citations like the one he gave you. The simple fact that you feel so slighted that you started this thread gives me the feeling that you might have had a bit of an attitude yourself. If so you, of all people, should have known what to expect. If not, I'm just reading between the line wrong and I'll sincerely apologize in advance for that.

[john67elco]

You know what really sucks... Its not the fact the LEO gave an LEO a ticket or didn't but what really sucks is there are so many laws now that EVERYONE is breaking them almost daily.