trunk with fold down seats

[lowk_18]

I've been wondering this for awhile and have never seen it addressed. I have a car with fold down seats in the back for putting large items in the trunk. This is fairly common nowadays and I was wondering if this affected the legality of the trunk being a "locked container". Since you can access the trunk from inside the car simply by folding down one of the back seats, it seems to reasonable me that the trunk could no longer be legally referred to as a locked container.

Does anyone have an answer for this? Yes, I realize that I could/should put my handgun into separately locked container and I do. However, it goes against my nature to leave a question unanswered.

Thanks.

[alex00]

If the seats fold down without the use of a key (I've never seen one that didn't) then the trunk is not locked, and is therefore not suitable to carry the concealed firearm without a separate locked case. If you were to disable the fold down mechanism you might be OK, but it's not worth the risk of a felony concealed weapon charge to not put your gun in a plastic case with a lock.

I hope this helps, and it is probably what you already knew. I have never seen a law addressing the specific issue of fold down seats, but the practical side says it is not a locked container.

[Unit74]

If the seats fold down without the use of a key (I've never seen one that didn't) then the trunk is not locked, and is therefore not suitable to carry the concealed firearm without a separate locked case. If you were to disable the fold down mechanism you might be OK, but it's not worth the risk of a felony concealed weapon charge to not put your gun in a plastic case with a lock.

I hope this helps, and it is probably what you already knew. I have never seen a law addressing the specific issue of fold down seats, but the practical side says it is not a locked container.

I think you'd have a hard sell on this opinion in court..... It is generally accepted that a trunk is a locked container.

[yzErnie]

Interesting question and one that requires some thought when it relates to the law. I have a coupe that does not have locks on the back seats to secure them. There are plenty of older coupes and sedans still around that do not have the seat locks.

Based on the scenario you describe, I guess it would be a technicality if the seats do not have a key lock. I think if the seats were up, properly in place and the gun was in a locked device in the trunk I wouldn't have an issue.

[mmartin]

depends on what you want to have to defend in court.

purpose of the locked container is effectively that the people inside the car cannot get to the handgun without unlocking something.

if you can sit in the back seat, flip down the seat on the other side or stick your arm through a ski port, reach into the trunk and pull out a handgun, it's defeated that purpose. the trunk is not a locked container.

I think it would be very easy to prosecute someone based on not having the handgun properly secured.

remember, it's got nothing to do with what is reasonable application of the law, just check out theseus's thread if you have any doubts about that.

so, question is, what are you willing to defend on a technicality? when someone with bigger leverage and more dollars may be willing to prosecute on the same technicality?

I'd read this law that trunk has to be inaccessible from the inside without a key. no flip downs, no ski access ports.

megan

[yzErnie]

theseus's case and this example from the OP are two completely different scenarios and IMHO have no commonality.

[webster223]

The penal code expressly includes a trunk in its definition of what constitutes a "locked container." I am not aware of any statute, regulation, or case law that excludes trunks with fold-down seats from this definition.

If such an exclusion exists, and/or someone has ever been convicted of a crime based on transporting an unloaded firearm in the trunk of a vehicle with fold-down seats, I'd love to see the citation.

[Scratch705]

plus hard to reach into the trunk if you are the only person and you are driving. i have not met any man or woman with arms that long....

[Jonathan Doe]

Carrying a concealed weapon is a misdemeanor case for the first offense, and an LEO can use his discretion in judgement, maybe. But for me, unloaded gun in a container in a locked trunk or cargo area of an SUV is okay.

[mmartin]

Carrying a concealed weapon is a misdemeanor case for the first offense, and an LEO can use his discretion in judgement, maybe. But for me, unloaded gun in a container in a locked trunk or cargo area of an SUV is okay.

if you mean unloaded unlocked gun in the cargo area of an SUV, I'm not so sure. if you mean locked in a case inside the SUV, ok.

I don't know of case law settling, or not, the issue of fold down seats... but given what we know of CA's DAs and judges willingness to extend the PC from the bench, I wouldn't want to be the test case.

megan

[Big D]

sounds like someone needs to make a "bullet button" for the back seat