Questions: LEO + DOJ want my friends father's guns

[ervaztec]

My friends elderly father has dementia and is very volatile, angry and potentially violent/suicidal. While he was in protective custody recently my friend took all his fathers guns from his house as a safety precaution.

The local PD and DOJ showed up at the father's house wanting the guns. My friend contacted them and said he had them all in a safe place away from the father. They told him to bring them down to the PD. My friend thinks if he does that he will never get them back because the father isn't going to get better. So he will never be able to legally claim them.

Can he turn them over to an FFL to sell with the PDs being in the loop? They are worth about $5k.

Would the son ever be able to get them back if he gave them to the PD? I assume he will inherit his fathers estate.

How does this usually go down and what is his best course of action?
Thanks for your time and service.

[P5Ret]

His best bet is to contact an attorney, and or whoever has been appointed as a conservator for the father to transfer the firearms into his name. I don't know how long he'll be able to delay DOJ if they have a court order to seize the firearms. He needs to move quickly.

[RickD427]

I'll second the recommendation to contact an attorney.

I would also caution regarding the potential for an illegal transfer to have occurred when your friend took the weapons from his father.

If the "protective custody" involved a WIC 5150 admission under the "Danger to Self" or "Danger to Others" clauses, then he is a prohibited person under state law. If he was "adjudicated" as mentally defective, then he is a prohibited person under federal law. If either is the case, it would be very good to have a disposition record for the weapons.

Please check out the recent U.S. Supreme Court's opinion in Henderson v United States. It involved a firearms owner who became a prohibited person through a felony conviction. The court upheld his right to sell his firearms in order to recover their value.

You're going to need to arrange for the legal transfer of the weapons to an FFL broker, and also satisfy the enforcement concerns of the nice DOJ and local PD folks. Considering the consequences of doing it wrong, I'd really recommend that you consult a qualified attorney.

[Ron-Solo]

Another vote for a good firearms attorney. Expertise is clearly needed to avoid many pitfalls.

Best wishes during a difficult time.

[Win231]

The attorney may request more than the $5,000.00 the guns are worth as a retainer.

[yzErnie]

My first question would be why the PD and DoJ showed up. Was he committed? Are the guns legal? Lots of questions in my mind. You need to find out why they want the guns in the first place. Also, determine if there is a viable alternative to submitting them for safekeeping.

[SkyHawk]

If father and son are both CA residents, the guns are in legal configurations, with no mags over 10rd etc - and rightfully belong to the father, then the father can verbally give the guns to the son if the son is not prohibited and has a current firearms safety card. The father doesn't need to sign anything.

The son can complete the intrafamilial transfer form online now.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/online-reporting

After the smoke clears, if the father isn't left as a prohibited person from all that has transpired, the son can give them back and the father completes the intrafamilial transfer form.

Why wouldn't this work?

[micro911]

You can definitely sell the guns. It happened to my friend. He was a subject of a domestic violence issue. They took his guns, but allowed to sell it to a third party. My friend, the buyer and police property custodian met at a gunshop and did the transfer without an issue.

[jdubs71]

If father and son are both CA residents, the guns are in legal configurations, with no mags over 10rd etc - and rightfully belong to the father, then the father can verbally give the guns to the son if the son is not prohibited and has a current firearms safety card. The father doesn't need to sign anything.

The son can complete the intrafamilial transfer form online now.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/online-reporting

After the smoke clears, if the father isn't left as a prohibited person from all that has transpired, the son can give them back and the father completes the intrafamilial transfer form.

Why wouldn't this work?

I was also thinking intrafamilial transfer, but if DOJ has already been involved his name may already be flagged. It Shouldn't keep son from doing the transfer anyway, but you never know.

[Cokebottle]

I was also thinking intrafamilial transfer, but if DOJ has already been involved his name may already be flagged. It Shouldn't keep son from doing the transfer anyway, but you never know.

That's what I'm thinking, but I believe the handguns still need to go through an FFL for the IF, right?
If so, the father (or his agent with PoA) needs to be there to sign as the seller.

Either way, the attorney is needed to keep it clean so it does not rise to the level of outright theft.

[SkyHawk]

That's what I'm thinking, but I believe the handguns still need to go through an FFL for the IF, right?
If so, the father (or his agent with PoA) needs to be there to sign as the seller.

Either way, the attorney is needed to keep it clean so it does not rise to the level of outright theft.

No FFL needed for handguns transferred between direct family if they are both CA residents. It is handled the same as long guns - you make sure they have FSC, and just hand them the gun.

If the dad is truly giving the guns, why would an attorney be needed? I don't get an attorney involved when I get or give guns from direct family. If the dad is smart, he is giving the guns to his son - asap.

[Cokebottle]

If the dad is truly giving the guns, why would an attorney be needed? I don't get an attorney involved when I get or give guns from direct family. If the dad is smart, he is giving the guns to his son - asap.

Dementia is involved and it doesn't sound like dad is in a legal position to be able to gift them (impaired mental capacity.)

[micro911]

When my friend had to get rid of the guns, the agency did not allow to transfer to a family member/relative.

[ervaztec]

Dementia is involved and it doesn't sound like dad is in a legal position to be able to gift them (impaired mental capacity.)

Yes, the father is not capable of giving consent.


Some great ideas hear. I really appreciate it.

[RickD427]

When my friend had to get rid of the guns, the agency did not allow to transfer to a family member/relative.

Was that before, or after, Henderson v United States?