Basic training attrition rates.

[zukieast]

[Desert_Rat]

Maybe things were different in 2008 than in 1989, but I can say that in 2008 all the above was not necessarily the case as zukieast stated.
Also, the Army has a tendency to get their deployments extended, almost all the time from what I hear. Marine units don't have that happen (unless I don't know about it).

In 94 we fired infantry weaps.(firearms)m-16,m-60,m-249,m9,.45,m203,threw grenades(1)

then on to MCT,I was a motor-t pog.we had to break ALL weaps down for time,then we fired them day and night.again m16,m9,m60,m249,.45,at-4,m2,mk19,m203

then on to the fleet,I was lucky enough to be in a 1st mardiv unit,all of the above at least monthly + drill on getting the guns up and running in the turrets,HMMWV,5 ton and LVS.the engage targets from turrets.
The m240g came along after I had been in the FMF for a few years.

[dwa]

Believe me, I do not envy the army's deployment to dwell ratio. Is this rotation a necessity, or just a gross mismanagement of manpower? I don't know the answer to this, but I hope it's not the latter.

its because we have more commitments than anyone else.

By utilizing the Marines so heavily as an occupying force, the U.S. is slowly losing it's most effective offensive tool. In order to accomplish the assigned mission, Marine units are forced to narrow their focus of training to current operations rather than the amphibious and expeditionary warfare they are supposed to specialize in.

really the most effective tool huh? besides getting you feet wet what can you do that no one else can? ready your history the army has done more amphibious operations than the Marine Corps, the army has also done many joint operations so maybe you could drop the indoctrination crap?

Don't have the ability or desire to adapt? This is not a fact, but a far stretch of the imagination. With such a focus on small unit leadership, the Corps excels at adaptation. The Marines have proven their ability time and again in Iraq. Who was sent back when the Army started losing control of the Al Anbar province? Who regained control of Fallujah? After the bulk of the insurgency left Fallujah and increased their attacks in Ramadi, the Marines were shifted and regained control their too. Flying casualty evacuation missions in Anbar in 05, 06, and 07 I had a pretty comprehensive perspective on who was kickin butt, or gettin their butts kicked.

im sure you can adapt just like everybody else, as for saving the day are you serious!! tell yourself whatever you need to bro

With a limited amount of school seats available, the Corps has to prioritize and send only Marines who will most likely utilize that training. This is why you don't see every other swinging dick sporting a pair of jump wings as they sit behind their desk.

you'd have more school slots of you spent less money on commercials. the American Marine is among the elite of conventional fighting forces but then again so is the Army Soldier, you do have cooler dress uniforms however.[/B]

[phroggunner]

Soldiers get moved between units so often to plus up before deployments they end up rotating through with sometimes as little as 6 to 8 months at home. When equating boots on the ground time its basically a 2 to 1 ratio, 2 deployments for a Marine is 1 deployment for a Soldier.

Believe me, I do not envy the army's deployment to dwell ratio. Is this rotation a necessity, or just a gross mismanagement of manpower? I don't know the answer to this, but I hope it's not the latter.

If you recall a few years ago, the Marine Corps leadership was complaining about Iraq, it wasn't their type of mission, they weren't trained and equipped for SASO ops, etc, etc. They wanted to only be in AF.

By utilizing the Marines so heavily as an occupying force, the U.S. is slowly losing it's most effective offensive tool. In order to accomplish the assigned mission, Marine units are forced to narrow their focus of training to current operations rather than the amphibious and expeditionary warfare they are supposed to specialize in.

Its not a negative dig at the Corps, its just a fact, they aren't geared for that type of mission, and don't have the ability or desire to adapt to the current type and tempo of operation going on around the world.

Don't have the ability or desire to adapt? This is not a fact, but a far stretch of the imagination. With such a focus on small unit leadership, the Corps excels at adaptation. The Marines have proven their ability time and again in Iraq. Who was sent back when the Army started losing control of the Al Anbar province? Who regained control of Fallujah? After the bulk of the insurgency left Fallujah and increased their attacks in Ramadi, the Marines were shifted and regained control their too. Flying casualty evacuation missions in Anbar in 05, 06, and 07 I had a pretty comprehensive perspective on who was kickin butt, or gettin their butts kicked.

As for training, we all receive great training, a lot of the Marine Corps training is administered by the Army. That's why I can't get butthurt when a Marine tells me they have the best training, its true, because they are trained b the best! On top of that, things that are reserved for the "special" units in the Corps are things that we do as our everyday gig, like airborne, air assault and such.

With a limited amount of school seats available, the Corps has to prioritize and send only Marines who will most likely utilize that training. This is why you don't see every other swinging dick sporting a pair of jump wings as they sit behind their desk.

[professionalcoyotehunter]

You will always have those Sh*tbag soldiers to deal with.

[5hundo]

We actually did not loose one person in our flight to attrition... (although, we should have lost one)

Our squadron lost 2 in total (both from our sister flight). One was an injury and he didn't want to leave. He was allowed to return the next year. The other just quit after a really bad day...

The one person we should have lost was named John Klapp. The moron actually ended up getting a commission!!! Our FTO (a Captain - Basically a DI for officers) used to yell out during PT "Don't die on my Klapp!" (probably because he thought it was a distinct possibility). We went to PT with the PJs one day and the idiot almost drowned in the pool! The guy was terrible...

I can't tell you how many times myself and Jeremy Bower (another Cadet, who has since passed on) had to pull him off the ground during PT. We'd do the push-up and while resting at the top, myself and another cadet would pull him up by his collar. I wish he hadn't have made it...

[CavTrooper]

Soldiers are supposed to get at least one year of dwell time between deployments, in reality, its usually a lot shorter than that. Soldiers get moved between units so often to plus up before deployments they end up rotating through with sometimes as little as 6 to 8 months at home. When equating boots on the ground time its basically a 2 to 1 ratio, 2 deployments for a Marine is 1 deployment for a Soldier. Add in the ranges, gunnery, FTEs, NTC, JRTC, and whatever schools you have the pleasure of attending, dwell time for a Soldier can be very short. We all have our up and down side, we all have our good and bad people, all have our weak and strong points, we are two different branches with two different missions. If you recall a few years ago, the Marine Corps leadership was complaining about Iraq, it wasn't their type of mission, they weren't trained and equipped for SASO ops, etc, etc. They wanted to only be in AF. Its not a negative dig at the Corps, its just a fact, they aren't geared for that type of mission, and don't have the ability or desire to adapt to the current type and tempo of operation going on around the world. As for training, we all receive great training, a lot of the Marine Corps training is administered by the Army. That's why I can't get butthurt when a Marine tells me they have the best training, its true, because they are trained b the best! On top of that, things that are reserved for the "special" units in the Corps are things that we do as our everyday gig, like airborne, air assault and such.

[professionalcoyotehunter]

There is no BS here, just common politics.

[zukieast]

Marine Units do an average of 6-9 months, but they usually only get 1 year back at their home base. So in a 4 year period they can do just as many deployments as Army units.

In 1989 at weapons training we did rifle range (M16), 50 cal, M60, M249, MK19, AT4, .45, 9mm. Then during final phase we got to do greandes (thermite, smoke, frag, claymore).

Then more of the same in SOI.

I still support forward deployed units, just got back from the Asscrack and am headed back soon, I meet alot of troopers who were prior Marines, and most of them tell me that they switched because of jobs available and deployment schedules.

I did not fall for any BS!
It is all BS!

[CavTrooper]

What is the average "boots on the ground" deployment time for the Marine Corps? As I understand it, its 6 to 9 months. Soldiers deploy for 1e to 15 months at a time. In an average 4 year enlistment its common for a Soldier to spend 24+ months in harms way. Even if a Marine deploys more times, they spend less time with "boots on the ground".

[johnthomas]

If you can't make it thru boot, something is wrong with you. I know a few guys that failed to make it, their not doing so well in life either. All you have to do is keep your mouth shut and do what your told. Is that so hard?

[steelrain82]

royal marine commando basic is 32 weeks i think they win. since length of training equal proficiency.

from my understanding, their training is kind of like a combo of boot camp and infantry training and alot of class time learning different things like how to kill animals and stuff. they spend more time on stuff. we're taught the basics and learn the rest in our units. my cousins dad was from england and was a royal marine. and the rm's i met before the invasion think marines our crazy. we thought they were crazy. plus they learn to shoot out to 300meters where we learn to shoot out to 500. eitherway i think hey are bad ***.

as far as the army goes i know they get to go home during xmas if there in boot. in the marines now the only weapon you touch in boot is the m16. once you go to soi at least when i went in 2001 you learn the saw and grenades, and thats 5 weeks than off to the fleet. if your gonna be a 31/41/51 you spend 2 more weeks after the 11's have left. lav crewman spend 5 moe weeks at lav school across the street. pogues get to soi and spend like 17 days straight in the field, graduate han go to their respective schools. this is all how it was back then on the west coast not to sure about now. and from friends experience out of for years in the army you would get a one deployment whereas the marines would do 2 to iraq or afghanistan.

[Requiem]

You really fell for the BS didntcha?

Maybe things were different in 2008 than in 1989, but I can say that in 2008 all the above was not necessarily the case as zukieast stated.

Also, the Army has a tendency to get their deployments extended, almost all the time from what I hear. Marine units don't have that happen (unless I don't know about it).

[CavTrooper]

I seem to recall when I was going through Paradise Island in 1989 we had a number of folks who "wanted" to get out after they realized they made a mistake but the Corps would not let them go.

Most of our attrition was due to medical, followed by those that tried to swack themselves because they could not just quite.

Not sure about the other branches, but I know if folks are given the option to quite and things get a little tough, they will walk away. We didnt have that option.

As far as 9wks vs 12wks every Marine leaves boot camp knowing which end of the rifle the bullet comes out of and has at least touched all major infantry based weapons and radios. Then factor in 4 weeks of weeding out the civilian in the recruit, 4 weeks weapons, 4 weeks tactics and combined arms training. Then follow on now with another 4 weeks post boot camp infantry based training, then off to MOS. A basic Marine gets more military training in 16weeks than the average Army trooper gets in a 4 years (infantry units excluded).

Folks that I know who went to the Army all did it mostly because the Army does offer more jobs than the Corps, had units closer to where they wanted to be. And finally less deployments than they did in the Corps.

You really fell for the BS didntcha?

[dwa]

royal marine commando basic is 32 weeks i think they win. since length of training equal proficiency.