2018 Jan 18: CA2 oral arguments in Knife Rights’ NYC gravity knife lawsuit

[Paladin]

Anyone know if this will be simulcast on Youtube on Thursday (the 18th)?

Oral Argument has been scheduled for January 18, 2018, in our long-running Federal civil rights lawsuit against New York City and District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr., which is currently under appeal.

Oral Argument before a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit is the last step before a ruling in the appeal of U.S. District Court Judge Katherine B. Forrest’s tortured decision against the plaintiffs. That decision fundamentally re-characterized the case in a way that did not reflect the case presented.

The lawsuit challenges the City’s practice of treating common folding knives as prohibited “gravity knives,” then arresting and prosecuting law-abiding knife owners at the current rate of approximately 6,000 per year and intimidating retailers into paying large cash sanctions to avoid prosecution. Under the City’s vague and subjective “wrist flick” test, it is impossible to know what knives will be treated as legal.

Knife Rights members and supporters are welcome to attend the Oral Argument in New York City. The hearing is scheduled for Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM in Courtroom 1703 at the Thurgood Marshall U.S. Courthouse, 40 Foley Square, New York City.

More at:

https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/oral-argument-scheduled-for-knife-rights-new-york-city-gravity-knife-lawsuit-appeal/

[JeffC]

Good luck with this.

With stop and frisk NYC has it harder than most in Ca.

[Paladin]

Tomorrow's the day.

10:00 am their time is 07:00 am ours.

[Paladin]

Now we wait. I'd guess most likely between 6 and 9 months until CA2 releases their decision. (Unless KnifeRights gets cut off at the knees for some reason, or unless CA2 is dragging things out.)

[Paladin]

Oral Argument Report for Knife Rights’ New York City Gravity Knife Lawsuit Appeal
January 19, 2018



Oral Argument in the second appeal in our long-running Federal civil rights lawsuit against New York City and District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr. was held yesterday. The three-judge panel included two judges who sat on the first appeal which we won unanimously.

All three judges asked questions indicating they understood the case, which is always a good place from which to start. Plaintiffs’ attorney, Daniel Schmutter with Hartman & Winnicki, P.C., did a great job explaining how the District Court judge, in ruling against us, had fundamentally re-characterized the case in a way that did not reflect the case presented.

Click here to listen to the Oral Argument hearing.

The key issue in the case, as was explained by Schmutter, is that there is no way anyone can tell if their knife is legal and no way for them to determine that they will not be subject to arrest and criminal prosecution. Under the City’s vague and subjective “wrist flick test,” also referred to as the “functional test,” it is impossible to know what knives will be treated as legal. He reminded the judges of testimony from Assistant District Attorney Dan Rather, Jr,. who stated on the stand that a consumer could test a knife twice using the “wrist flick” maneuver in a retail store and if it did not open then it was not an illegal gravity knife. However, Rather also testified the he could be arrested immediately upon exiting if a New York City Police officer stopped that same customer and was able to “wrist flick” it open.

The City’s and District Attorney’s lawyers argued the same misleading and irrelevant positions as before. They carefully ignored the facts and this key issue of the case as demonstrated by Rather’s testimony. It was all smoke and mirrors. The reality is that nobody in New York can know that their knife is legal because the “wrist flick test” is indeterminate and variable between persons doing the test. It is therefore unconstitutionally void for vagueness.

A decision is likely six to nine months away. The decision in our first appeal took eight months.

Click here to review the full appeal record including Plaintiff’s Appeal Brief and the two Amicus Briefs in support.

From: https://kniferights.org/legislative-...awsuit-appeal/